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Rebecca Bultsma: Welcome to AmpED to 11, the podcast where we crank up the volume on AI and education to the absolute max to help you stay on top of what’s happening in AI and why it matters.
Brett Roer: I’m Brett Roer, CEO and founder of Amplify and Elevate Innovation. And every week at AMP to 11, we’re going to put our guests through 11 questions designed to uncover the jaw dropping stories, the bold ideas, and the insights that are going to push the boundaries of what’s possible in AI and education.
Rebecca Bultsma: And I’m Rebecca Bultsma, here to break it all down and make sure we leave you with the Practical, actionable takeaways in AI and innovation every single week.
Alright, so Brett, in the headlines there’s been a lot going on, as usual, in the world of AI, but there was a couple stories that I pulled [00:01:00] for this week’s episode that I found particularly interesting and that I wanted to tell you about. So, one of the kind of biggest news stories that happened In the month of December had to do with OpenAI having this 12 days of shipmas, where they were announcing new products and tools and features every day from December 5th to 16th.
And it was AI news and announcements coming fast and furious from a ton of different companies at a ton of different directions. It was a lot to keep up on, but, uh, did you hear a little bit about any of those announcements at all?
Brett Roer: I did. And as soon as I heard it, the first thing I said is, I cannot wait to talk to Rebecca and have her break it down for me because you’re always got your finger on the pulse.
So I’d love to listen and learn to you. What was the big breakthroughs and also what stood out the most to you?
Rebecca Bultsma: So I was actually in Europe as these were all coming out. So I was doing my best to stay on top of it all, but I kind of did a bit of a deep dive when I got back and there was all different types of announcements from open [00:02:00] AI from lots of companies.
But I thought today we’d talk about the ones. I think probably There was a few that kind of stood out. There’s a lot of backend ones that I didn’t necessarily even fully understand, but I thought I’d, I’d give the highlights. They started off with a splash announcing this 200 a month model, uh, called chat GPT pro that got mixed reactions.
I don’t know if you heard about this, but originally people were concerned that their ChatGPT Plus accounts, their 20 a month accounts were suddenly going to be 200 a month. And that’s actually not the case. This is a new plan that ChatGPT announced for 200 a month subscription that gives you better access to their reasoning model, O1.
So we’ll talk about that I’m sure in depth in a future episode, but, uh, ChatGPT announced this. Pro plan for 200 a month. People are on the fence whether they’d pay for it or not. It sounds like if you’re just a regular user of ChatGPT, that 20 a month plus plan will be just fine. Um, the 200 a month plan is [00:03:00] more designed for researchers, people who focus on a lot of data and coding and mathematics.
So I don’t think that sounds like us. Uh, what do you think? Are you planning on spending 200 a month on ChatGPT?
Brett Roer: I’m not and obviously I’m thinking not just about myself but about, you know, education leaders and And society in general, um, I think I go back and forth, right? We want to make sure people have access to, um, the most innovative tools in AI.
And though I might not need those tools and I might be able to afford it at that price point, there are others who will need those tools. Um, and it could just lead to, you know, the further division, uh, in technology around, you know, equitable, uh, And accessible innovation. So that’s probably where my mind goes.
Um, I agree the current chat GPT model at 20 a month. Uh, I use that and I’m incredibly happy with it. I worry about the slippery slope sometimes about, you know, the profit over access.
Rebecca Bultsma: [00:04:00] Yeah, I think that’s a really real concern. I actually have purchased it to use for the month of January just to experiment with it and see what the hype is about just so I can report back.
So I will let you know that 01 model, the reasoning model is actually super helpful, but It is available to people who are in the plus plan for 20 a month. So if you’ve never tried it out and you’re paying 20 a month, there’s kind of a little menu at the top with a dropdown where you can choose either for O or O one, all these poorly named models.
So definitely something to try out. And I’ll report back on that 200 a month model. So also in the 12 days of shipments, another announcement was Sora. So that is OpenAI’s text to video. generation model. Have you heard about that at all, Brad? Have you tried it out?
Brett Roer: I, um, I’ve watched a lot of other people’s videos.
I’m usually very quick to jump in the pool, but I didn’t have the time to go down a rabbit hole because I feel like I would. Um, after you [00:05:00] talk about this, I will tell you the rabbit hole I did wind up going through with ChachiBT over the holidays with my children, but I haven’t tried this one. What was your take on it?
Rebecca Bultsma: You know what? I went to go sign up for it as soon as like within an hour of the announcement coming out and I couldn’t get on like it was wait listed. And so that’s something I’m planning to tackle this month and experiment with. But like you, I’ve seen a lot of great videos come out and I’m thinking through some of the use cases for education and how that might be useful.
Uh, but that’s one we’ll probably have to report back on, but at least people know that if you have a chat GPT plus account, uh, that’s something that you can access as part of your account. Sora. Go over, sign up, check it out, experiment. Let us know how it goes.
Brett Roer: Yeah. So, um, shout out to a few folks, including Jacob Cantor.
Um, he put in a group text that he was using the Chatsy BT voice of Santa and Chatsy BT has this feature, which I didn’t know about, where you can turn your camera around and it can actually read words off of a [00:06:00] book. So. Um, in the Santa Claus voice, he was reading with his children and he was putting the, you know, his phone or device over the pages and it was reading a book in Santa Claus’s voice.
So I did that with my children. They loved it. But then we spent about 30 minutes of them asking like the most. Interesting questions to Santa, um, taking it incredibly serious, you know, really like, how do you get to every house? Or, you know, how do you know if I was naughty or nice? And all of these really amazing questions.
How many elves do you have? Who’s your favorite reindeer? Just so much fun. And they couldn’t wait until, uh, my wife got home to say, Mommy, we talked to the real Santa Claus and now we know so much about him. And they’ve been talking about all break, how they keep, they had this great conversation with the real Santa Claus.
So that is a great technological, uh, breakthrough that allowed us to experience the wonder of the holidays. Uh, and you know, through AI, like make it really feel very [00:07:00] realistic to them.
Rebecca Bultsma: And, and don’t feel bad for missing out on that feature. That actually was announced day six of the ship miss. Well, you’ve had this capability on your phone to talk to chat GPT voice for a long time, but that video integration just landed probably a day or two after you found it.
So it’s actually really cool. I’ve seen people use it in really interesting ways. Uh, you can take a picture of like a super. Messy house and say, can you help me find my glasses? How do I look? Help me prep for this job interview and Note any mannerisms that I should be conscious to change because you can basically FaceTime with chat GPT and it can see the world Around you so that was another great feature I think kind of the last one we’ll touch on and this is just kind of more fun.
But uh They introduced, and it felt like a stalking stuffer, but 1 800 CHAT GPT that you can call from anywhere in the U. S., 1 800 CHAT GPT, and actually interact with chat GPT voice by phone or in your WhatsApp. And so there actually, there’s a lot of really interesting use cases for this. Maybe seniors, you [00:08:00] know, who, I don’t know if you’ve ever had to help your parents or your grandparents, uh, figure out a remote or some technology, but if they can call 1 800 CHAT GPT to talk them through things potentially as the technology gets better, that might be helpful.
Um, so if you’re in the United States, you can call 1 800 CHAT GPT. Everywhere else you’re going to use WhatsApp and you can text back and forth with chat GPT. So just kind of an interesting, uh, thing I experimented with a little bit. But there were a lot of other announcements. Those are the ones that I found particularly interesting.
Brett Roer: Amazing. And I know as you’re thinking of the use case for some of the older generation who might not be as tech savvy, it’s also a great way to have, uh, you know, either students or your own children interact with, And AI, uh, voice agent without having to like hand them a device, right? You could put it on speakerphone.
Um, they might not, my children love when they see that like voice thing happening on chat, GBT, they want to like have the device in front of them. So as a way to, again, remove the screen, but keep the technology at the heart of it, um, that seems like a really great, like low tech version of a very high tech, uh, AI tool.
So that’s great. [00:09:00]
Rebecca Bultsma: Well, there was one other story I wanted to flag for this week, especially because We talk specifically to and about education and AI, and that is that Arizona, uh, this week introduced, uh, or announced that there is going to be a, kind of a fully AI school that they’re opening in 2025 and it’s called Unbound Academy.
And it is an AI driven charter school where the students, grades four to eight to start out with. Uh, we’ll spend two hours a day, um, on. On AI driven learning like Khan Academy IXL and the AI will adapt lessons in real time based on student performance and it’s supposed to allegedly, uh, double learning efficiency compared to traditional methods and then the remainder of the day is spent on hands on workshops like teamwork, leadership, even role playing games like Dungeons and Dragons designed to foster critical thinking and creativity.
Obviously, this is highly controversial. Even when [00:10:00] the, uh, charter school was seeking to be passed in Arizona, it was a very close vote. And they aren’t going to have teachers, it sounds like. They’re going to have guides providing emotional support, but no teachers in the classroom, which is making it a very hot topic for discussion.
So as an educator. Brett, I wanted to chat with you a little bit about what you see as kind of some of the potential benefits or concerns or criticisms about something like this, especially for students grades four to eight.
Brett Roer: Yeah. Okay. So let me start with some of the, some of the potential pros. Um, I think that the idea of repurposing time in the day and utilizing AI tools for personalization and allowing it to be, um, you know, a guide for students.
That’s where I really do hope we [00:11:00] aspire to an education. Um, that’s what’s lacking a lot right now. And there’s, we need to continue to scale that, that processes. Um, what most concerns and troubles me and what I hope happens as a result of something like this is, um, lessons are learned very quickly, right?
Because what I don’t really appreciate is children being, you know, the Guinea pigs in education. Um, especially if it’s not for the right reasons. Sometimes you do need to try and fail in the classroom. But if it’s not for the right reasons, I’m not a big proponent of it. Um, but I hope that it starts to lead to rethinking.
Okay, what are the silver linings from this initiative that could be scaled and replicated? So things that, um, worry me right now is the idea of it. These guides. What is their training? Um, what impact is that going to have again holistically on the profession of teaching, right? Whether people now start to think this generation that’s, you know, about to maybe enter the workforce.
Well, I’m going to be replaced. [00:12:00] So maybe those teachers who are most mission aligned and driven, um, might not see that as a vocation anymore. Those are things that concern me on a on a macro level. And then on a micro level, each of those students not having access to Someone who has some pedagogical background and knowledge in whether it’s the specific subject area, either like, or even just how to, uh, empower students, those are probably my biggest red flags and worries, right?
The, the, the teaching profession writ large, but also just those individual students who is helping them and what qualifications do they have in order to, to meet the needs of those children. The last thing I’ll say is, you know, I just posted about it recently. My son, he’s in second grade. We had a parent teacher conference and his.
His teacher was talking about how she’s very creative and funny and he loves her. So she talks about how she does like a funny voice. He’s like, your pencil misses you. Your pencil wants you to keep, keep writing with me to really build his perseverance. And she started sending home these really funny [00:13:00] notes that were like signed by your pencil.
You know, like, thanks so much for using me today. Like my teacher had to, your teacher had to sharpen all the pencils in the whole building because of how much you’re writing now. That I love. I don’t know that these people, I don’t know why the AI is going to be able to build my son’s That connection with my son and know that’s what he needed, like that humor and this creativity.
But I hope like that teacher’s not going home and racking her brain about this. I hope she’s using like an AI tool to be like, okay, this is what this kid likes. What would be a funny quick poem I could make or a funny quick thing that rhymes because he likes rhymes. That’s where I hope it kind of bridges and, uh, and gets married.
But that’s, that’s where I’m at right now, starting off 2025.
Rebecca Bultsma: Well, thank goodness for those good teachers, especially like your son’s teachers, right? That bring that creativity and the, the, Humanity and the personality, I think we have to make sure to never lose that and that kind of transitions me into kind of my last news headline that I pulled for you that I actually thought was really interesting as like an AI, uh, headline that we maybe didn’t see coming.
So one of [00:14:00] the great AI tools and the biggest kind of glow up of all times, Encyclopedia Britannica. Yeah. Has transformed itself into a trusted AI tool for educators. Did you see that glow up coming is the question. And I’ll tell you why it’s great. So, you know, we all, you probably had encyclopedias.
That’s where we got our information growing up, right? When’s the last time you actually opened or even saw an encyclopedia, right?
Brett Roer: It’s been, it’s been a minute.
Rebecca Bultsma: It’s been a minute. Well, what makes this great is they’ve really stayed up to date, but they have this AI chatbot that is based on all of the concrete, actual information from the encyclopedias that students can interact with.
And it reduces that hallucination and gives kids this actual facts trained on their encyclopedias. And they also have these accessibility elements now personalized learning experiences. Content creation and updates that’s really based on the vetted information that Encyclopedia Britannica is [00:15:00] known for and trusted by educators for generations, probably.
I think there used to be like door to door salesmen going and selling encyclopedias door to door, but they are really targeting, uh, worldwide to grow themselves through this AI integration, to be like a trusted tool for, to support educators and to provide trusted, uh, information. Information in a world where we’re not always like sure what to trust in terms of AI outputs.
So that’s going to be one to watch. It’s, it’s interesting. And I’d recommend our educator friends check that out because, uh, again, it’s the glow up. I didn’t see coming.
Brett Roer: I love that. I think, uh, especially the ways they could interact with children of different levels. Again, my children are at the age where the amount of questions they ask me and how often I find myself unprepared to answer.
We just talked about evolution yesterday and trying to explain that because it was in a little book my son had, uh, to a four year old was a challenge. So knowing there might be a trusted source out there, um, that can do that. And then when they [00:16:00] have further questions, we could do, you know, how would you explain this to a four year old?
I love that. And, uh, the accessibility aspect is crucial as well. So that. Sounds like a great use of old technology to meet the moment.
Rebecca Bultsma: So that’s kind of a few of the headlines from my scan this week, but, uh, we have a really, really great guest this week coming onto the podcast. I’ll let you tell us a little bit more about that.
Brett Roer: I am so excited to welcome today’s guest, David Adams, the CEO at The Urban Assembly. David’s a longtime friend and a true innovator. In all things, education, David, thank you so much for coming on today’s podcast. Amp. There
David Adams: is no other place
Brett Roer: I’d rather be. Well, as you know, you’re someone I truly admire in the space of education, in the space of innovation.
So I first want to make sure everyone understands why I am such an admirer of yours. Can you just let people know a little bit more about who you are, what the urban assembly is, and especially what is the work you’re leading right now in AI and innovation?
David Adams: Sure, uh, [00:17:00] but I am the Chief Executive Officer here at the Urban Assembly, and we are an educational solutions non profit.
Um, we design educational solutions, and then we scale those solutions from our schools to all schools. That means we have 22 Urban Assembly design schools here in New York City. Uh, these schools focus on things like career readiness, social emotional learning, and high quality instructional design. We take those solutions, and then we take the, uh, We take those solutions and we scale them across the country.
So, um, working right now on two solutions around AI. Uh, one is project cafe, the classroom automated feedback environment and counselor GPT, which is going to help young people make good choices in their post secondary outcomes.
Brett Roer: Incredible. So I know we could spend this whole conversation just going into your long, illustrious career.
In all things, education, innovation. But like you said, you are leading some of the most cutting edge, um, you know, groundbreaking things in making students make better choices in education and allowing teachers to make better instructional decisions in the classroom. That’s what we’re [00:18:00] all about. And again, obviously as a New Yorker, I’m so, uh, grateful at the work you’re leading right here in New York city, the impacts having a New York city students, the largest school district in the country, but also the impact it’s about to have nationwide and worldwide.
So. David, you are about to be the first ever guest to go through the AMPed 211 gauntlet of questions. Are you ready? I cannot be any more ready. Oh boy. All right. Famous last words. Here we go. Okay. So you’ll start to notice there’s a theme to these questions. They all focus on, uh, the number 11 in honor of our podcast title am to 11.
So the first one, we’re going to take it into the world of pop culture. The show Stranger Things, I’m sure, you know, we’re both young adults, we’re hip, we know what’s going on in the world. So in the, in the television series Stranger Things, there’s a character called Eleven, and she has supernatural powers.
Every time people meet her, they leave awed and inspired, maybe more shocked than inspired. But they know that this person has some supernatural powers. [00:19:00] So, David Adams. What is your most jaw dropping AI moment? The first time you encounter something, or the weirdest, most unexpected thing you have seen AI capable of doing.
David Adams: Well, the first thing I saw AI do that was really surprising to me, I was down at the Aspen Institute and we were, uh, in a conversation and a man had put together, um, a chat GPT enabled conversation, um, between two educational kind of philosophies and then he kind of put out a script and had that play out and I thought that was really, really cool, um, but the most The awe inspiring moment in AI was when we first got our transcript from Project Cafe and were able to look at how much of the audio we’re actually picking up in the classroom and how useful that was for the teachers when they’re actually thinking about how to improve their classroom instruction.
So the first moment I had with AI was that interaction, but the most jaw dropping one is when the product that we developed was actually getting out there and doing the job that it’s supposed to do. Amazing. Thank you again
Brett Roer: for always bringing it back to [00:20:00] the impact AI can have in helping teachers make great decisions and being able to use the power of AI to make what they do even more impactful.
All right. You did all right with question one. Let’s see how question two goes. It’s going to take it up a notch. In fact, we’re gonna take it all the way up to 11. So this podcast gets its name from Spinal Tap’s iconic scene where when they really want to kick it up a notch. They turn the amp all the way up to 11.
They go past the limits of the ordinary. So David, what’s the AI tool that you personally use in your role as a CEO to push you to your absolute limits when you really need to get things done? What’s your AI amp
David Adams: to 11 power tool. I mean, this is pretty straightforward. I’m a chat GPT user. Um, I love the scene from Spinal Tap, by the way, when they turn it up to 11, because, like, I love how straightforward it is.
And he’s just like, but it’s 10, right? And he’s like, but it’s 11, you fool, right? Um, and that’s how sometimes I feel like, and it’s gonna sound a little weird, Um, when people don’t understand how AI can take you to the next level, right? Like get to 11, don’t have to [00:21:00] sit around and, and, and do the same things over and over again, you don’t have to, uh, write the thing from scratch.
You can get to 11 in your career if you incorporate AI to be successful. So I imagine all of our AI users are sitting next to this AMP explaining to the sound designer, right? Like, I know you want us to be at 10, but this AMP, this AI tool gets me to A little bit louder.
Brett Roer: So if you don’t mind, get me on the, get me on the curtains for a second.
Um, people must assume there’s 10 David Adams because of how prolific you are. What’s one like thing you use chat CPT for that maybe let people know this actually is the thing that makes me more efficient.
David Adams: What are you using it for these days, man, whenever I have a writing block that lasts more than 10 seconds, I will go to chat GPT and say, Hey, help me finish this sentence.
Um, I, I write pretty quickly and the things that stopped me is like, I want to get a right word and that’s when I’ll just hop on chat GPT and like, let me think this out. I’m going to think this through. So, [00:22:00] um, that’s really the way I use it the most is just get me through some writing blocks so I can keep grinding the way.
Absolutely. Yeah. Great. Perfect. Perfect. Perfect. And I know you said, you said there were 10 David Adamses. I think they’re 11, is, is what I, I, I just wanted to keep on theme here.
Brett Roer: On brand, yo, David on brand all day, every day. Well done, sir. Alright, speaking of being on brand. I’m going to allow you to speak a little bit about the UA here, because I’m going to lead this question.
Normally, like you said, we say something’s 10 out of 10, but sometimes something is so good, it is off the charts 11 out of 10. I’m going to, I usually ask people, what’s the AI tool that deserves that 11 but I’ve already seen it action. I’m going to let you say. What makes that new tool that UA came out with, why don’t you name it again and tell us why it’s an 11 in terms of the impact it could have in the world of education.
David Adams: Brett, Project CAFE is an 10 in terms of the way that it can make an impact in public education. CAFE stands for Classroom Automated Feedback Environment. Now, I want you to imagine being a teacher, um, and I want you to imagine being an elite teacher, one of the best teachers in [00:23:00] the world. Maybe, maybe you’re drafted into the teaching kind of league.
We’re, you know, you’re not like 55, like Ronnie, maybe you’re like, like 15. Number one, like LeBron. Yeah. And people competing, they’re like, Oh my God, can I get some bread? Can I get some bread? All right. And so you get onto the, into your classroom. You’re like, okay, I got drafted into the best teaching league in the world and I want to get better.
What are the options to get better? All right. You got your supervisor comes in, supervises you maybe once a week. It’s twice a year, gives you feedback five weeks after you got supervised, right? Maybe got some intervisitations, but with Project Cafe, the classroom automated feedback environment, you can watch your own game tape, which is your classroom interactions in real time so that you understand the interactions that matter.
I’m talking about things like open ended questions. I’m talking about things like teacher versus student dialogue. I’m talking about things like positive and negative feedback. I’m talking about the things that make education go. So. I believe teachers are like elite athletes, and if elite athletes have an opportunity to [00:24:00] find and refine the quality of their interactions on the field, we should do so in the same thing way in the classroom, and Project Cafe is going to get us there.
Brett Roer: First of all, I mean, if you’re not feeling it now, I’m amped to 11. This is, these are the kind of folks you’re going to hear every week because you’re so excited about this because you’re about to change the game of education through a real tool that’s tangible and it’s going to just scale widely. Um, I didn’t have to imagine I was a classroom teacher in Brooklyn.
I got to see classroom teachers in Brooklyn last week with David, bringing together some amazing folks in the world of education and philanthropy, um, so I was able to put myself in their shoes and I said, I wish I had had this. Not saying I was number one ranked. I might have been more of a brawny coming out of, uh, coming out of college, but it was amazing to see the potential and the how inspired and excited both your instructional coaches and your educators at a UA school in Brooklyn were about the possibilities of using this.
So well done, sir. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right, now we’re gonna, we are obviously too optimistic, excited people about the world of AI, but I’m actually gonna, I’m actually gonna [00:25:00] ask you to think about for a second, as the world, as we keep getting closer and closer to what is And 11 in terms of AI’s capabilities on the scale of innovation, especially in education.
There’s still sometimes gaps where we’re like, how can AI not be able to do this yet? Please share with us one thing where you still find yourself going, how is AI not able to do this yet?
David Adams: I think it’s, it’s, um, it’s mostly when I’m looking at kind of like hard, Um, and then think about like, it’s, it’s, all right, so let me just take a step back on this.
The, the first time I got surprised on the output from AI is when I started looking up specific people. Um, I was looking at my board members and I was like, tell me about this board member. And it was like, it just gave this bio that was like 30 to 40 percent false. But that was like. enough real that I had to really know my board member to, to confirm.
Um, and so that’s something I’m always kind of aware of. Um, when we’re looking at some of the capabilities around Project [00:26:00] Cafe, uh, we have multiple layers of different types of AI kind of interacting, and we also have a person, like a real person kind of coding. the AI’s output, uh, to ensure that like what it thinks is, let’s say, a feedback loop, which is when I say something, the teacher builds upon it, paraphrases, the student kind of explains and, uh, opens up their thinking, is what the AI is coding.
So cool. I think that continuing to have a person confirm, um, really helps, and I think what makes the work that we’re doing at UA unique is that the output is confirmational, or verifiable, I should say. So, we have these videos, Brett, and as we were talking about before, it clips these interactions. So, if I say, the output says from the algorithm, this was an open ended question, you get a little, like, dot.
And then you can click on it, and then you can, you confirm that that was an opening question. Yeah, uh, so, um, I think in that way, we, we kind of keep, uh, teachers and instructional coaches in the loop. Um, and we get to get feedback around [00:27:00] like how well we’re predicting the kinds of things that we think we’re predicting when people are clicking on them and, and watching how these interactions play out in real time.
Brett Roer: So I think you’ve also, you’ve identified a challenge and also named One of the key ingredients is keeping that human in the loop because both your first analogy, you as David Adams, need to have some context about what you’re asking AI, you can’t just assume what you give is, you know, gospel and facts.
So I love the fact that you’re naming, it can get you so far, but really make sure that you’re, uh, you’re not ever taking what it’s given you as just straight up a hundred percent on point with what you’re looking to get out of it. So great job. Thank you for that. You’re welcome. All right, we’re going to take it as you’ve already said, you are a huge fan of sports.
There’s a lot of overlap between effective coaching in sports as well as in education and you’re trying to be at the forefront of that at the UA. So we’re going to talk about someone who I fear more than love. Reggie Miller, NBA legend, proud wearer of the number 11, [00:28:00] famous for his clutch performance that ruined my childhood.
Um, you know, I believe it was eight points in eight seconds. There it is. Yeah, you got it. I took the 11 too far that
David Adams: time. It was 8 points in 8 seconds.
Brett Roer: What was your moment in AI where a tool just like came through for you, went above and beyond your wild expectations and you were like, how did that just happen?
Um, just came through in the clutch. Either helped you out of the situation or is helping the work you’re leading at UA and going, uh, and going to the next level.
David Adams: Well, so we’re actually developing a school called Counselor GPT, um, and this is a tool that will talk to young people, um, with, with a voice, uh, about their post secondary options and help young people understand what the landscape out there is, um, in terms of the labor market, uh, in terms of certificates and, and certifications and qualifications, um, and help people understand, like, what are the career clusters, how are they associated with the labor market, um, and what’s the return on investment on each of these credentials.
And, uh, I, I sat down with the prototype of the tool as one [00:29:00] does, um, and I was having conversations and, uh, it started to really help me think about like, okay, this can be something that changes the kinds of information in the way that young people and the parents make decisions about their post secondary options.
Um, so again, you know, I think, Brett, it’s fun to like imagine a thing, you know, we get to kind of see a problem at the UA, um, or, and from a different place and then just like. Solve it, and come up with a solution. And that is the greatest moment, is when like, the solution that you develop is live. And it’s in the world, um, and it’s helping young people make good choices and improving public education.
So, um, not to be kind of like self referential, but I love when we have our own tools. I love when we develop them, and I love when they come to fruition in real life. Yeah, and David, feel free to
Brett Roer: be self referential, right? And ain’t bragging if it’s true. You’re doing something that’s cutting edge. Um, you know, I don’t have, I don’t use any specific tool when I name this, but a lot of times with parents, when I lead parent [00:30:00] workshops in the power of AI, I have them talk to whatever tool I have available that’s most impactful to show either through Zoom or in person.
And I show them how very quickly they can personalize that real college talk and even do it using voice so that they and their child can have an authentic conversation without looking at screens. Mm hmm going how quickly it can help you map out what you didn’t even need to know what you didn’t know you need to know About the college experience.
So doing that at scale. I see it one by one. They look at it’s like a magic trick I can’t imagine once this tool is out there how quickly it’s gonna change the game for college and career counselors nationwide So thank you for the work. You’re leading on that. You got it. All right. Okay, you did. All right We’re at that we’re at the halfway point here The 11th hour, some would call it.
It’s that crucial last minute moment where, all right, we’re on the precipice where we go next. So what is the 11th hour tool? The latest AI breakthrough that educators, especially, but folks anyway, in general need to know about what’s the latest AI breakthrough [00:31:00] that they need to know about right now.
David Adams: Well, you know, I’d say, uh, something that’s been impressing me lately was, is Panorama’s new tool called Solara. Um, that tool, uh, connects student, um, information to, um, to users and so actually applies, um, the artificial intelligence, And the query system to student information and allows you to start to think about given, uh, Brett’s profile, where his strengths and challenges academically, socially, emotionally, attendance wise, what are some interventions that can take place, how might I differentiate lesson plans, um, so it goes from kind of this broad, or actually no specific AI, uh, use case to what is the, what is the world of, of what we could do When we combine what we know about students to the ability to query those and to connect those over, um, over the tool.
So I’m excited about that. I think this is going to be cool. I think it’s going to be something that we work with at the UA and start to think about, um, use cases around in terms of instructional [00:32:00] planning and instructional supports. Um, and so our teachers are getting good quality supports and our students are getting good quality supports in terms of how we’re planning for them.
We’re going to improve our schools and we’re going to improve public education.
Brett Roer: So again, just want to throw some shine on you for elevating that, um, that tool. Teachers are doing that all the time, right? If you’re a New York City public school teacher, you got 150 students on your caseload. The issue is time, right?
Being able to think deeply about each of those students with all the other, obviously, requirements you have, um, is not just challenging. It’s, it’s challenging. It’s just, it’s impossible to scale. So being able to just, like you said before, remove some of the writing blocks, have all the data say, here’s some suggestions, doesn’t mean you gotta use all of them.
But it just gets you that starting point because it’s analyzed all those data, um, points. So again, looking forward to seeing how UA takes the forefront on something like that, and then obviously shares their great work with others, so people have a starting point on how they can adapt these tools to the, to the Uh, learn environments they’re part of.
So thank you [00:33:00] for that. Alright, I know you are a big fan of all things technology and innovation, especially, you know, when we talk about the world beyond ours. So now we’re going to take it all the way into the world of NASA, Apollo 11, big step for mankind when we landed on the moon. What’s your personal Apollo 11 moment with AI?
The breakthrough that felt like you and the people around you were pushing into some new frontiers.
David Adams: I remember when Cat TPT released their voice feature, like you were talking about before, right. Um, and starting to really think through, um, how to interact with the tool. I had been doing some analysis, and this goes back to your earlier question, um, where I felt like it broke down.
I had been doing some statistical analysis on ChatGPT, and it was like putting out, creating outputs that were frustrating to me because they were, they were not right. And it was hard for me to understand [00:34:00] where, where the wrongness was, if that makes sense. Like, something was wrong, but I could not figure out what was wrong.
Um, and so I started querying it through voice. Um, and. It was interesting because it allowed me to, to organize my thoughts in different ways than through writing. Um, and then, and then watching that interaction was something that kind of blew me away. I felt like we had really gotten to the next version of, of our world.
Um, in that space. So yeah, I can imagine this again in the classroom, right? Like you’re having, um, supports, uh, where. Students can talk to a chatbot who can help them through problem sets so that the teacher can multiply her or his attention more effectively. And again, the talent here is going to be making sure that educators understand what the capabilities are and what the capabilities are not, right?
Um, relationships matter in a classroom. They drive engagement. They drive attention. [00:35:00] Um, Relationships help students learn, help students understand how to organize their own learning. Um, and so we’re not going to be replacing those kinds of interactions in the classroom. Um, but when it comes to like informational spaces, right, um, this is not dissimilar than looking it up on Google or ask three before me, uh, which is another technique that most teachers have already used, right?
So, um, those are some things that I’ve been excited about and I’ve been thinking a little bit about the applications to classroom environment. I think something you just
Brett Roer: said that I’m sure resonates with educators is you have brilliant young minds in front of you and sometimes the blocker to getting that wisdom out is they just might not be, for whatever reason, able to write down those thoughts or when they write, their mind is going faster than their pencils, so being able to give them another answer.
Output that doesn’t require you to be at the forefront, but to allow them to get their ideas and wisdom out there. Um, the first thing I tell anyone who’s doing anything in AI and trying to innovate and they ask me for advice, I immediately say, does your prototype have a talk to text feature? And they’re like, oh, it’s on [00:36:00] the roadmap.
I’m like, Move it to the front because kid voice is so important that an educator voice and the way people think through talking will allow them to be just, they’ll see the value in the tool instantly. Whereas if that’s a secondary feature or thought, you might not ever get them to really engage with the tool and unleash the power that you’re trying to, you’re trying to use.
So I love that. That is definitely my Apollo 11 moment. It has changed my life. Voice to text AI features. Amazing. Yes, sir. All right. Now we’re gonna get back and think ahead. Right. They always say, right, when it’s 1111, someone turns and says, make a wish. So, David Adams, if you can make one wish for how AI is going to shape education, and therefore society and workforce development in the future.
What would it be? What’s your 11 11 wish?
David Adams: My 11 11 wish in terms of how AI should shape education, um, is that teachers can do the most important thing, which is pay attention to how students learn. Um, and that AI helps teachers, [00:37:00] um, think through the learning process, um, enables feedback to students to increase, um, to a level where it’s personalized and can be happening on a more continuous basis, um, rather than like a summative good bad.
It’s more like a, I noticed. Think about this. Try that. Um, that teachers can really be the folks who are focusing on the academic and social emotional development of their, of their classroom because they have the tools in place That help them understand each individual student, right? Um, and, and I think we’re, we’re not far away from that.
I think we’re capability wise, maybe two years tops, um, away from this classroom. We talk, we talk about the classroom automated feedback environment, right? The Project Cafe. Um, I want to imagine that not for just for teachers, but for students where students are just continuously getting feedback around how they are learning, how they’re interacting, what they do well, what are some challenges.
Um, [00:38:00] we know assessment matters. And the, the, the problem with assessment is that we’ve kind of put all our eggs into this summative assessment basket, which is like, do you know it or don’t you know it? Um, rather than like, how do you know it? And, and when do you know it? And how do you pull it back? So much educational research is like based on retrieval theory in terms of memory, like how well do people remember things?
And it’s like, that’s not the way we need to be anymore. Like, We don’t need to memorize things. We need to have an understanding of the domain of knowledges out there and how they interface and interact so that we can use them to problem solve. Um, so I think when we, when we use AI, uh, in the future, and as we use AI in the future, young people will be able to do, to receive the kind of like learning feedback that’s going to drive their ability to be successful in, in the world more.
Brett Roer: Well, just again, elevate the work you’re leading [00:39:00] at UA and to keep thinking forwardly. The same way that you were talking before about these open ended questions and you can give feedback to a teacher. Oh, they ask more open ended than closed questions. Just imagine a world where whatever that tool is, you have all that data about, Oh, this student kind of has these kinds of questions.
So even the teacher knows, Oh, no, Brett learns best by asking these larger, you know, curiosity sparked questions. So. You can turn that back to them and it can give you even a profile of the types of questions or how they learn best when they stop asking questions because they now understand the concept.
I mean, that tool and having that data will inform personalized learning because you actually have them trying it out on a tool that’s collecting that information, obviously in a safe and ethical way. And something David said, and I, we haven’t even given him the shine on this, but you know, listeners, David’s talking about the world of education and assessment, but I’m so grateful that you’re also one of the leading experts in SEL and had to incorporate, you know, the entire holistic approach to education in this.
So, you know, you’re really [00:40:00] marrying. Innovation through AI with knowing what’s best for that child. So, um, just want to make sure people know you’re, uh, if your children are utilizing a tool like this from folks like David at the UA and others in the space, they’re really thinking about this from a number of different vantage points.
So want to give some flowers where they’re deserved there. I received those flowers, Brett. Thank you. No problem. All right. This next question for some is an imaginary question, but for you, it is not because you are the proud father of two young boys. Who, can you say their names? Uh, their names and ages?
Elijah and Isaiah Adams and 12 and 11. Oh my gosh, so this is perfect, cause 11, imagine today’s 11 year olds who grow up never knowing a world without AI. So you don’t have to imagine it, that’s, that’s Elijah and Isaiah right there. So, what message would you give to writ large folks, uh, 11 year olds, but also obviously your own children?
What’s the future going to look like in an AI driven world for them? What are some words of wisdom you hope that they receive from people like you?
David Adams: I, I I’ve been really fascinated about [00:41:00] how we train these, these neural networks that, that drive the AI. Um, and a lot of it is, is feeding it a whole bunch of information.
So that the, the system starts to make relationships between ideas and information that then are reinforced by humans, right? Like, yep, that’s right. Yep, that’s right. Yep, you’re on the right place. It’s just to make correlations. Um, and so I would say to, to 11 year olds, um, like read. Uh, taking information, develop content knowledge and develop content expertise, because essentially that’s how we trained AI to mimic human intelligence.
So don’t, don’t take the AI revolution as a, now I don’t have to think or have to apply myself. Um. The information itself is what drives its ability to make predictions. Um, and then we see those predictions as language, right? Um, where essentially it’s saying like, this is how I [00:42:00] think language works based on what has happened out in, in my training sets.
So it’s like, it’s two, it’s twofold, Brett. On the one hand, The domain specific information and knowledge that we learn isn’t so important for memorizing and retrieving it for the test. It’s important so that we can reason and make connections across domains and problem solve just like generative AI does.
And so it’s like it shifts how we think about learning and schooling from Can you learn the phases of mitosis so that you can reproduce them to, can you understand mitosis so that you can use the way that cells reproduce to a problem that you may not even know will exist 20 years from now, and you’re thinking about, oh, what’s an analogy that I can use to understand and frame this problem, right?
Um, so I, I [00:43:00] know it’s a little nuanced on that, but it’s like, learn. Like learn, understand so that you can use AI to solve problems. Um, that you may not even know will happen.
Brett Roer: I think that last portion is probably at the 11 year old level, but I really appreciate you taking us on the, uh, the David Adams, um, balcony approach to also like really understanding this because you’re right, going from being able to apply and make connections to what’s unknowable right now is the important part, right?
Who thought 30 years ago, I’m going to be talking about Reggie Miller and being like, we all know that, right? We all know what that means and how we’re applying that to the future of AI. Of course. So thank you for that. That was a great analogy and a shout out, shout out to Elijah and Isaiah to, to young up and coming superstars in many facets, um, Alright, so here’s an example.
I’m going to give you my example of it, and then I’d love you to reciprocate. Right now, if I’m talking to folks in education, there are times where I’m like, Hey, hold on a second. I’m just going [00:44:00] to talk to my AI real quick. I want to make sure I get that note down. And people look at me like we’re in a sci fi movie.
Like, you’re just going to go talk on your computer or something, and it’ll help the work we’re doing right now? I’m like, yeah, just do it. And then they’re like, it’s today’s AI. Let’s just say that’s level one, right? As people often say, this is the worst AI we’re ever going to experience is today. What is going to happen?
We crank this all the way up to 11. So give me that future version of education when AI reaches it. And, uh, what’s possible that might feel like sci fi today.
David Adams: So, I mean, this notion of personalization of the learning experience is going to be, is going to be the key. Um, right now, uh, we, we do some work, um, where we have competency based grading at the Urban Reciprocal Maker Academy.
And, um, Some of the complications around that is like how many times you take the test, how do you identify the standard and then the activity or task associated with that standard that the student needs to, uh, to revisit. Um, but this [00:45:00] idea that like we’re gonna sit in a world where I want you to understand this concept.
I think it’s important for you to understand this idea. And I’m going to throw it at you 15, 20 different ways and give you 15, 20 ways of, of um, showing me your understanding. And it’s not necessarily driven by teacher time, right? Because right now we all know what the what is and what the what should be happening in education.
Everybody’s like education this and education that and what, what, what, what. But there is no how, because there are six hours and 36 minutes that we need to organize around. That is a constraint, that is unmovable. Uh, at least in the context of public education and district schools. Um, sure you have people who go above and beyond, right, but that’s not a solution.
Uh, just working really hard is not a solution, right? So, the, the, the 11 version of this is, personalized approaches to understanding, um, where students have the ability to not only [00:46:00] see different ways of, of a concept being approached, but articulate different, um, methodologies in which they are assessed by hand, Through, through projects and the entire time, the environment is collecting data around not just your academic kind of development, but your social emotional development.
Like, we would sit here, Brett, and, uh, at the end of the classroom, right, the, the, the, the AI would be like, you know what, Brett, you’re a really good listener. You interrupted by it six times, uh, your collaboration skills were good, um, your reasoning skills were effective. I, I noticed that you, you, you make connections between this and this and you would just get these reports.
Um, and you would just walk away and be like, Oh, wow, good, good, good. And then you sit with your teacher and she would say, okay, it looks like you’re making progress in this and this. I want, I want you to focus on one, two and three, uh, for tomorrow. And you would just have this environment of continuous, um, and consistent feedback of assessment that allows you to develop your academic and social emotional skills.
And that’s my vision for the future.
Brett Roer: That is [00:47:00] incredible. And as you said, it’s not a matter of skill. It’s not a matter of will. It’s a matter of time. And so educators are doing that. And even parents, maybe, you know, maybe we gotta make, like, a dad GPT. Because I was on vacation over the Thanksgiving break, and my son loves math.
And the fact that I was able to, having recently seen his, uh, you know, math scores on a recent assessment, I was like, here’s his current level of math. Here’s what he likes doing the most. Can you start making some questions? And here’s what he loves talking about. And man, did that help a ton on rainy days.
Um, using napkins and just writing out new equations for him to solve. And then watching him solve it, and then having a kid a year younger than him, uh, he started to be the teacher, because I started making questions that he liked, and I was just like, I can’t believe I got two kids sitting here doing math equations on their free time, but only because I had ChatGBT, in this case, to help me come up with more and more, because I would hit writer’s block at some point, I don’t know what second, first grade math, how to keep expanding on it and making it fun and engaging for an extended period of time, that was not my forte, so.
DadGPT, let’s throw that out there, folks. Let’s get that out in the universe, see [00:48:00] who can make
David Adams: that.
Brett Roer: I thought
David Adams: you were gonna go with dad jokes on this, where, like, DadGPT, uh, and dads go one on one to see who can make the best dad jokes and raise kids, you know?
Brett Roer: Hey, no, as you know, the possibilities are limitless, and why can’t it combine both?
Why can’t it make dad jokes that are framed in math equations? Come on. Let’s math. Human math.
David Adams: There’s something deep here, Brandon. Let me just take a second on this. Because like, I think it’s smart. You just said dad GPT. Right. And then, and you said, all right, like, what would it be like for AIs to replace dads?
And I just, I’m going to throw this out. Right. Um, nobody would be like, AI can replace dads, right? Because you’re like, what is it about being a dad? It’s about paying attention to your kid, building their relationship skills, helping them be good men and good women in the, in the world, right? Having conversations in ways that build relationships.
And in the same way, nobody would be like, AI is gonna replace parenting. AI is not going to replace teaching, because like, it’s not just the informational aspect of it, it’s the, I see you, you’re my [00:49:00] child, we’re investing in you, we’re developing you, those are aspects of teaching too, and those are things that can’t be replaced by AI, because it’s not about the information, it’s about the relationship of the people who are developing the child.
Way to make that
Brett Roer: full circle. Um, also David, yes, David is also an amazing podcast host. Obviously an amazing podcast guest. Maybe we need an effective tool to show like, how much is Brett? How good are his connections to David? How good is the guest at making connections? I mean, you know, podcast GPT also not far off, David, let’s go.
All the things, all the things I can’t believe we are. We just made a level 10 and we end with our level 11 question every time. So David, this is probably the most important question. Um, because the first 10 were really about you and your vision, and how you see the future of education shaped by AI, and you did a fantastic job, and we’re all, we’re all wiser for it.
This next one is really about giving those flowers to other folks in the space. Um, you can crank it all the way up to 11. I’m gonna give you a free [00:50:00] space. Obviously, like, you’re getting this first, you know, uh, glimpse. So if you forget some names later, you know, when this, when this part goes viral, feel free to put in comments folks you overlooked.
And people who overlooked, feel free to just Get after David Adams about it. But as we know, the movie ocean’s 11, they assemble the best of the best. Everyone having that unique skill, that’s going to allow them to achieve something unfathomable, right? But that crew pulls off the impossible by having the ultimate dream team come together.
So, you know, we got Matt Damon over here. We got George Clooney. We’re ready to put it together. So you’re assembling the team of teams to tackle AI’s biggest challenges in education. Who are your must haves, experts, specialists, dreamers? Go, give out some flowers, David Adams.
David Adams: Well, I mean, I got to go with our managing director of programs, B.
Bangura. Uh, that man is about the life, smart, motivated, dedicated. I like it. Um, I like the work that’s coming out of Panorama. Um, Aaron Fur, I think he’s doing great work over there. Uh, always appreciate Jean Claude Rizard and the work that they’re [00:51:00] doing over Digital Promise. I think they’re motivated. Uh, there’s some big problems.
Uh, let’s see. Um, I could always appreciate what’s going on at ASU GSV. Um, obviously the folks, um, coming in that space are, are folks who’ve got a lot of investment in, in AI work. Um, I appreciate our folks over in Ohio. Uh, Candice, uh, Shannon. Folks who are ahead of the curve and thinking about how to shape the future of education.
Um, let’s see, what else motivates me out here? Uh, Robin Lake over at the Center for, uh, CRP, Center for Reinventing Public Education. Uh, Robin, she keeps me motivated. I think they’re doing great work. Um, Khan, South Khan, Khan Academy, I think they’re doing great work. Um, staying motivated, getting after problem sets.
Um,yeah, and then there’s always you, Brett, man, the, the, the, the man who I met at ASU GSV, [00:52:00] um, who came out and was just like, I’m going to make a shift and I’m going to make it work. Uh, you got yourself deeply invested in the concept and constructs of AI and, and, and are elevating the work for educators and making it simple and easy for them to latch on to.
So, um, I am sure I missed some people and, uh, please feel free to burn me for that miss, but, um, You know, this, these are the folks who I’ve, I’ve told my head continue to press me about how they vision and envision the future of AI.
Brett Roer: Well, first of all, thank you for getting those names out there, getting those organizations out there.
Um, I think it’s, it’s a, it’s a great problem to have that. There are so many folks out there doing great work that we both I’m sure are thinking now right away. We’re like, oh my gosh, I can’t believe you forgot about these folks. So. It’s going to be great when this part goes out there, we’ll amplify and elevate their work.
We’ll make sure if other people come to mind, David, you have a chance to, uh, to shout them out in the comments. Um, but again, thank you, right? Thanks for taking time out of your busy day to share the amazing work you’re leading, to amplify and elevate the leaders [00:53:00] who are out there doing equally impressive work in other areas of AI.
And most importantly, David, people want to learn more about you, the UA, the amazing work you’re leading. Briefly, tell us, where can people connect with you?
David Adams: Well, you can always connect with me at UrbanAssembly. org. Um, you can find me on LinkedIn, you can find me on, uh, well, a little, you can still find me on Twitter.
Um, but I’m slower, I’m not on Twitter as much anymore. Um, and you can always email me at D Adams at UrbanAssembly. org. If you want to, uh, test out Project Cafe, you want to adopt it in your school, let me know. If you want to think about counseling or GPT, let me know. Want to invest in social and emotional learning, let me know.
If you want to think about your student’s career connected learning and how we use these tools to support instructional quality, I’m the guy. Just give me a call. We’ll get to you.
Brett Roer: Yes, you are. And folks, just in case you’re like, no way can one man do all those things. Yes, they can. And yes, they will get back to you.
So David Adams is that person. So truly, if you left here today saying, I got to learn more about all the work that David’s leading over at Urban [00:54:00] Assembly, he means that when he says, reach out to him, he will make it happen. And his motto is always forward. And today he is He is always moving the work forward.
So thank you again for cranking it up to 11 over here at AMP to 11 with us, David. Really appreciate your time. And thank you so much again for the work that you’re leading. Thanks for having me, Brett. Absolutely. Rebecca, what tools do we have this week that we are going to spotlight in the world of AI and innovation?
Rebecca Bultsma: So the tool that I thought that I would highlight today is actually my It’s my most used, very favorite AI tool, which is NotebookLM. And if you haven’t heard of NotebookLM yet, uh, it’s something you definitely need to try. It’s a product from Google that gives you the ability to add a bunch of different sources into a notebook and then Talk to those sources and get information from those sources.
What makes this great is [00:55:00] part of the complaints that people have about using a tool like ChatGPT to summarize information is that it sometimes hallucinates and it gets things wrong. And you don’t quite know where it’s pulling the information from and how faithful it’s being to the document you asked it to summarize.
And Notebook ALM solves this problem by giving you an answer to your question Or a summary and then showing you exactly where in your document it got that information from providing a citation and then highlighting the part of the document it came from. Another great feature is that it’s not just limited to a document or a PDF that you upload.
You can actually give it. A PDF in your notebook, plus a link to a YouTube video, plus copy and pasted text, and it can sort through all of those sources, answer your questions, pull the themes together, and give you exactly what you need. Now, [00:56:00] probably the most talked about feature of Notebook LM is the fact that within that notebook full of all of your sources, you can hit a button to generate an audio overview.
So an audio overview is a conversational podcast between two hosts who are basically talking about your content. A new feature that was just announced in December is the ability to now interrupt the hosts and ask a question. So, the hosts will be having a conversation about a document you shared. Let’s say I was preparing to review a new school handbook, and I wanted to get a good sense of what was in that document first.
The two podcast hosts would then I could have a conversation about what was in the document and I could stop it and the host would say, uh, something like, Oh, hey, we have a question from one of our guests. [00:57:00] Let’s see what they have to say. You can ask your question and automatically redirect the conversation and Make the overview exactly what you need it to be.
I’m using it both as, uh, an educator, in air quotes, helping educate people about how to use AI, and also as a student as I’m working through some of my own learning at the University of Edinburgh. And having these, uh, Notebooks, where I can find the information I need quickly. I’ve worked with HR departments who put all of the government legislation in the handbooks they need to follow in a notebook, and then they can ask questions of it to find that exact citation they need is, I always hesitate to use the word game changer, but it really really is for a lot of people.
Some of the schools and students I work with, and teachers, are using it to summarize lessons and information. And ask the podcast hosts to tie it into a Pokemon theme or to put it in a context that would be really, really engaging for a group of students, but still [00:58:00] stay faithful to the information. So if you haven’t tried Notebook LM yet, it’s a great tool.
It is free. And it’s definitely something to experiment with, especially just to help you, uh, manage information sources, avoid some of the problems that we usually have in summarizing with. Large language models and AI tools. And even experiment with that podcast feature. The first time I learned about it was two podcast hosts who actually gave it a redacted credit card statement.
And the podcast host just had a full conversation about his spending habits. So there’s a lot of really, really interesting use cases and ways to experiment with it. And I think that that’s, um, That kind of joy of discovery is a huge part of using these tools. And this would be one that you should definitely try and try out throughout the week in your spare time, because it’s one that I think can save you a lot of time.
