Speaker: [00:00:00] I mean, it’s true like you do have students that aren’t going to verbally participate, but they can have their AI there and maybe they can type with their AI and tell it what to say or whatever it may be, and, and they can feel more comfortable and present in the classroom. At the same time.
Speaker 2: It’s only a supplement, and it might be a supplement for how I prepare.
Speaker 2: It might be a supplement for setting a direction, but in my opinion, this is one that that is only part of a process. It can’t substitute for real, authentic human voice, real authentic human experiences.
Speaker: What is the tipping point? If AI can already handle the task schools traditionally assigned? What new kinds of learning should we be?
Speaker: Should we be designing that AI can’t replace but can amplify? And how do we help teachers make that shift without adding to their workload?
Speaker 3: We are live. Welcome to the AmpED to 11 podcast. It is such an [00:01:00] honor and pleasure. We have two fantastic guests for you here today, but first I wanna introduce my amazing co-host, Rebecca Bultsma, coming from the great North. How’s everything going up there, Rebecca?
Speaker 4: It’s good. Just living the dream up here in Canada, in four feet of snow today.
Speaker 4: So the great white north.
Speaker 3: Wow. That’s over a yard here and over a meter by you. If I understand my metric system correctly. We have two incredible guests today. We are joined by Jessica Paulsen, the President of Innovation and Impact at LEAP Innovations, as well as Roberto Vargas, the managing director of IT and data systems for distinctive schools.
Speaker 3: How are you both doing today?
Speaker 2: I am awesome. I am pumped to be here. Amped.
Speaker: Amped to be here. That’s right. I’m hoping that amperage keeps going up. I wanna get past 11 here, Brett and Rebecca. So like I think we, I think we can do it. Yeah, definitely feeling the cold with Rebecca here, so we, we know, we know how you feel.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Y’all [00:02:00] zooming from where, where are you all zooming in from today?
Speaker: I am in northwest Indiana right now with probably eight inches of snow outside over the last two days. So that’s been fun.
Speaker 2: And I’m here in Chicago. We had about the same starting last weekend and so we’re, we’re now making our way through the slush
Speaker 3: goodness.
Speaker 3: I’m here in DC where I just escaped a little northeastern snow on the, this morning driving to the train station out of New York. So we are cold, but we are about to get amped up here. So first, Jessica and Roberto, if you could kindly share with our millions of listeners around the world, a little bit about yourselves, your passion, your purpose, your why, and how did you get to this podcast today?
Speaker 3: Jessica, why don’t you start us off?
Speaker 2: Happy to
Speaker 2: jump
Speaker 2: in. I have spent my, I. Career here, kind of working in leadership in youth development organizations and leadership programs, working with young people focusing on college and career, access on college, persistence on career pathways, and spending that time kind of designing those [00:03:00] programs and those opportunities with young people, bringing them in front of the boards, helping integrate them into program design.
Speaker 2: And over the years in that work here, I found myself working in schools, working with students in spaces that felt separate and in conversations that even though we were in the school building were sometimes separate from the conversations or the support or the access that they had in their classrooms.
Speaker 2: And so I started to think a little bit about what it might look like to have an approach. At school that was really more holistic. More personalized, where every student could feel like they were seen, that they had ownership and agency, that they had access to everything they needed to help them reach their personal idea of success.
Speaker 2: Um, that brought me to Distinctive Schools where I had the chance to work alongside Roberto for a few years. I got to see LEAPS work in action at Distinctive Schools, which are the lab school partners to leap for more than 10 years, implementing deeply that personalized learning practice, that co-design work with teachers and students.
Speaker 2: Um, and I had the opportunity to transition to LEAP full-time about a year ago and get [00:04:00] into these conversations with the Work Leap has done about what does it really mean to responsibly integrate any emerging technologies to support a teacher’s ability to personalize, to truly amplify the incredible work that teachers and students are doing when they have strong relationships and personalization and.
Speaker 2: One of the reasons this artificial intelligence conversation is exciting to me of why I enjoy being in these spaces tied back to that work I was doing in college and career access and career pathways. This isn’t just an opportunity that’s changing what learning looks like in a classroom. It is an imperative for us to make sure that every student is equipped with what the skills and knowledge is that they’ll need for what the careers of the future look like.
Speaker 2: I think in a new way than other things have challenged us with before. And so I get really excited not only because what it can mean for AI to personalize learning what it can mean to help us create better learning experiences for students and teachers, but also what it means for the future and what the opportunities are [00:05:00] that are in front of students.
Speaker: We’ll start with my why. My why that I’ve always told everybody in meetings, in senior leadership meetings. And even just folks that I talk to on a regular basis in terms of like, why do I, why my education is because I was those kids that we service. So that’s my why. My why is I want to give students that we service the same opportunity that I’ve had to be in the place that I am now, right?
Speaker: Like, I want to give everything I possibly can to this sector to make sure that students have equitable access to whatever it is that they want to do and be successful in their careers as they grow up through their life. Um, you know, my wife is an immigrant student coming into, you know, the, the states and her having that background as well has always been something that, again, how do we make sure that everything is equitable for all of us?
Speaker: How do we make sure that we’re giving students resources and tools to be where they’re at? So that’s my why and how I got to distinctive here is I actually worked as a building tech in one of the [00:06:00] buildings that we, that we manage now, start off in the building, loved going in the classrooms, being around kids, you know, just talking to teachers and figuring out what it is that I can do for them to make their lives easier in the classroom.
Speaker: During that time, and then as I slowly, you know, kind of worked up the ranks, ended up at the network office for Chicago National Charter Schools, which is the company that is like the umbrella company of the charter network. They hold the, their charter with Chicago Public Schools was doing data and analysis for them, giving reports to teachers, giving tools to teachers so that they can better understand their students, their data and what they’re doing.
Speaker: Kind of had hiatus in Chicago left for a little bit. I had the opportunity to come back and I’ve always wanted to work here because distinctive schools is just an amazing place to be at. The culture, the the belief, the number of people who have been here for 10 plus years because they believe in what we’re doing as an organization, has just been something that’s kept me here and wanting me to be here.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker 4: Fantastic. [00:07:00] Well, it sounds like a lot of your whys and a lot of the work that you do is centered in that idea of human relationships and people as it should be, which is why we wanted to visit with you today. So let’s talk a little bit about this idea of AI that’s kind of brought us together and it’s kind of the big conversation everywhere right now, and how we balance the idea of AI and this conversation about ai.
Speaker 4: Personalized learning, which I have mixed feelings about with the need of the meaningful human relationships in learning environments. Uh, let’s start with you Jessica. How do you see that balance happening? Where do those pieces fit together?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I absolutely see the balance as really the imperative and the opportunity of the moment.
Speaker 2: The goal is to leverage AI in ways that amplify those relationships, that allow us to make space for more meaningful connections, to get better feedback, to have those experiences that are personalized and customized at a scale that maybe an [00:08:00] individual educator couldn’t do on their own. And so I think that when we think about that balance at leap, that’s the question we’re always starting at.
Speaker 2: What is our goal for the relationship between teachers and students? What is our goal for the learning experience? And only then do you have the conversation about the role that the tool plays in that goal. And in that opportunity, I. Opportunity recently to connect with an educator who’s part of a committee that we are running here on policy around artificial intelligence, where we talk a lot about just what systems and priorities and protections need to be in place.
Speaker 2: And this particular educator shared about, uh, the way they were able to shift their assignments, that increased time for student conferences and consultations. And so the idea that thinking about those assignments and thinking about the human connection is the relationship between the teacher and student, the feedback the students were able to get, the agency, they were able to take in that assignment in a new way.
Speaker 2: And they felt like the, the way they were [00:09:00] able to design that with AI made that possible in ways that they couldn’t have done without that. And so I think those kind of examples where we see people thinking about what matters the most in relationships between teachers and students, between students and students, and what matters the most in the learning experience.
Speaker 2: Starting with that, why first. Starting with those goals first is really our approach to how we, how we down that
Speaker 4: now, Roberto, I’m gonna change the question a bit for you. Um, because I’ve seen firsthand some of the great work that you are doing, specifically this amazing playbook that you’ve put together, uh, for your organization.
Speaker 4: It’s, I talk about it actually all the time because it’s probably, actually it is, it’s the best one I’ve seen so far, and I look at a lot of these and it’s really great. So I’m curious, let’s talk practicality because everybody kind of knows the big picture, general things, but I’m curious about the steps that you took in putting that together and what [00:10:00] advice you’d have for other organizations who are looking to build some sort of playbook, handbook, something to help guide their organization.
Speaker: Well, thank you for that. I really do appreciate that. That makes us feel really good knowing that, you know, we’re, we’re putting something out there that’s meaningful and, and, and good for us, honestly, in building it. Distinctive schools is always about being human-centered, human-centered, and having a human-centered approach to all that we do.
Speaker: So a lot of the work that we did, that we put into this playbook, actually started with our students first. We built it out. We use a bunch of different resources that we had available to us, our handbooks, our policy books, our student handbooks, all of that good stuff. Combined everything together and built out this approach to how AI should look at distinctive schools.
Speaker: And then we set that in front of our students first before we put it in front of anybody else. So our students had a chance to take a look at it and we wanted their voice to be, how do you think AI is? We know that students are ahead of us in AI every step of the way, right? And if [00:11:00] we stumble a little bit, we’re it’s gonna take a little bit for us to catch up, so why not have those students there in front of us?
Speaker: And then after we did that, we honed all that information in, reworked it, and then we sent it out to parents and teachers at the same time. So we made sure that parents knew what we were doing as well as all of our staff members. And we’ve just been taking all of the voice from everybody and iterations and coming out with version two of it soon with all of this different, you know, information and commentary from parents, from staff, and how they think that it should look for their students.
Speaker: ’cause I mean, at the end of the day, you know, we sit in front of these students more than their parents do. So we need to make sure that they understand, like, we’re making sure that we’re taking care of your students and we’re putting them first in everything that we’re trying to do for them.
Speaker 3: No, that was excellent, Roberto.
Speaker 3: And, uh, I wanna echo what, uh, Rebecca mentioned. I, I use it all the time when I show people how they could or should be thinking about capturing the voice and the wisdom of their community and then turning it into something that the community can [00:12:00] actually use to discuss ai, like the practicality. And it actually explains why, and like gives clear examples about like when you can use personal information and what tools, why you should be careful about certain things.
Speaker 3: It’s just the most, uh, easy to understand, applicable way to get a whole community engaged in that. Um, so just kudos to you and your team for putting that together. And it’s so exciting to hear version 2.0. Can’t wait to see, can’t wait to see that when it drops. Jessica, I’d love to think about, you know, obviously you work in collaboration, as you mentioned, there’s a lot of innovation that occurs.
Speaker 3: Uh, I have to think. The schools that you’re part of, when you talked about, I. Where AI is going and how it can really empower educators to reach, you know, all types of learners. What are some of the changes we need to start seeing in the teacher preparation, the PD programs, so that educators not only ready to teach with AI and really have that design mindset, not just like about ai, but how to do it with ai?
Speaker 3: How are you approaching that or grappling with that right now?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that’s a great [00:13:00] question. ’cause I think one of the things that we are working actively in our community to make sure is not the case is that, that in absence of kind of a unified approach or, or a way that we think about for preparing teachers together, we find that what’s happening is you’re getting a classroom by classroom access.
Speaker 2: If you have a teacher who’s informed. Or excited or has done the work to train themselves up. A student in that classroom may have more opportunities to do that learning and that access and in another classroom it’s gonna look different. And that’s a real equity concern for us when it comes to that work.
Speaker 2: So I think one piece that’s important, and you know, Roberto and I are both working here in the Chicago area. Illinois is not a state that currently has state guidance, but we’re working towards it. So first of all, the idea that there needs to be some sort of guidance and common language about what we expect for students and teachers to be able to do and have access to, I think is one of the steps we need to take, though Illinois is [00:14:00] working through that.
Speaker 2: At leap, we’ve created the Chicago Land Coalition for Human-Centered AI and Education. So we’re bringing together districts, teacher preparation programs, universities, partners all together in absence of that to create our own ecosystem. And I think to your point, the. The mindsets. I like that word that you used, because I think that that’s an important piece of the shift here.
Speaker 2: And we find that when it comes to personalized learning, that a mindset shift is a really important part of that. But I think when it comes to artificial intelligence, that’s also true. We wanna anchor it in what is most powerful for the learning experience. And we wanna think about, I think we have to get folks thinking beyond the initial plays of efficiency.
Speaker 2: I think those are important. I shared an example of one earlier where an educator found some efficiency there, but I think we have to start thinking about and creating spaces where folks can grapple with how does learning happen? What is really important? And when we think about the power of AI to.
Speaker 2: [00:15:00] Transform or create conditions that we haven’t been able to create in classrooms alone. Without that technology, we need to get to a place where we can have those conversations and where we can equip people who have the time and space to grapple with what needs to change in teaching and learning. So I don’t know that we have an answer to that yet, because I think we’re still at the beginning of those conversations, but our approach to LEAP has been how do we get folks in a space to have that conversation together, and how do we elevate different perspectives?
Speaker 2: Around what’s working around, what people are thinking about, about what they’ve tried around, what we think is necessary to have in place as an ecosystem and where we can learn from each other so that not everybody is having to start from scratch and do one step at a time. So I know that that was a roundabout answer.
Speaker 2: I didn’t give you a direct answer there, but I think if’s about that human process of how we design together and how we learn from one another, and ultimately how we have to continue to push our thinking, and I think we have more work to do there. When it comes to teacher preparation, I think we’re in phase one of [00:16:00] kind of a multi-phase process of potential for artificial intelligence, but it takes that phase one to get us open-minded and to get us to understand what the potential is that’ll come next.
Speaker 4: I actually wanna do a little bit of like a, a plot twist and just ask you how you’re using AI in your own lives, in your own work right now. What’s something cool that you’ve been doing with AI or that you couldn’t do before? Or is there any new tools or strategies that you’ve employed recently that you think other people should try or could benefit from?
Speaker: Wow, what have I been using AI for? I use it pretty much every day. I mean, I do your simple, like, let’s go ahead and tell me, tell me what emails I needed to respond to from yesterday. You know, your basic quick little tasks that I can knock out first thing in the morning because it just makes things easier for me.
Speaker: I also have been starting to do a lot of just a data analysis within things. Just using it as a, a quick, like, Hey, I need to do this aggregation and I don’t want to do the mental capacity for it, unfortunately, you know. We always talk about like how kids are using AI [00:17:00] and they’re not using their brains to do things, but sometimes these little tasks where it’s like, okay, it’s a quick thing I need to take care of.
Speaker: Let me just knock it out of the knock, knock it outta the way and and continue moving with it. But aside from our school, like I, we will also talk about what disease schools is doing, if that’s okay. So we actually just start a pilot program with our handful of teachers who are doing learner profiles with Notebook lm, which has been really exciting to see.
Speaker: They have pretty much created a baseball card, is what we’re calling it. That has pretty much all of their academic records and information that we need, and it’s taking attendance, grades, discipline, whatever it may be, as well as listening conferences that we do with students. And then the students are making their own profiles.
Speaker: Teachers are putting it all in notebook, lm and learning about their students, which is the, the best thing ever because they’re building that learner profile. And I think this is one of the coolest things that, like I’ve seen done with the Notebook LM and like in the space, because these teachers sat there and they typed in group by students by their learning [00:18:00] preferences.
Speaker: And it’s like, here are these 10 kids that like to learn this way. And the teacher’s just like, I can do so much with this. I can run with this in this direction, I can do this different, this differently from here. I can scaffold, I can group, I can. And it was just like the coolest thing to sit there and watch them, just their eyes just open up with the possibility of what they could do with just using simple things in Notebook lm.
Speaker: So like that’s one of the cool things that I think that we’re doing. Not so much what I’m doing, but I have a hand in that and I was like, Hey, look what we could do with Notebook lm. So that’s kind of one of the cool things that, that we’re doing.
Speaker 4: That’s amazing. That’s, I’m gonna, I’m going to try that out.
Speaker 4: That’s a good one. Thank you.
Speaker 2: And I would love to share what I’m doing, but what Roberto shared is the, the best example of the kind of things that I’m talking about when we talk about the potential of personalized learning. That use case that Roberto just shared of how it can help teachers learn about their students is better than any personal use.
Speaker 2: I could tell you about how I use it to fit my grant applications into the 500 word or less field, or how I ask it to give me [00:19:00] feedback to help strengthen some of the strategy work that we’re doing. All of those are, are useful, but like what Roberto just shared is the real potential that I think we all see when it starts to come to transformation.
Speaker 2: So I love that example and I, I hope we hear lots more of them as you guys continue to have these kind of conversation.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure. And Rebecca, I also wanna just. Champion you too, because I do follow all of your LinkedIn posts and a lot of the things that you’re doing are pretty amazing. And I actually like take some of those as well.
Speaker: Like Jessica just said, of like, putting all the grant proposals or, or anything else but like policies that come out or, or different kind of referendums that come out and I throw it in there and I’m like, give me a cheat sheet on this or quiz me on this so I know exactly what it is. That was one of your, one of your LinkedIn posts that I was just like, that’s that’s an amazing way to use Notebook lm.
Speaker: And that’s also one of the things that I’ve also been doing as well. So kudos to you.
Speaker 4: Thank you for that, Roberto.
Speaker 3: Wow. This is just a lot of innovation happening here. I had two moments today, so I was staring with you all. I had this long train ride down and [00:20:00] I was using, uh, an AI tool to take all these different, uh, matching of like different schools and their needs with certain innovative solutions.
Speaker 3: And it reminded me a lot of being a high school programmer and I was like, wow, this is gonna be great. I’m gonna use ai. And it wound up taking. Longer than I could have ever imagined. And yet it allowed me to Roberto’s point, like it allowed me to choose when I wanted to use my brain and when I didn’t.
Speaker 3: But it was also, ’cause I had done this before, like thousands of times, like hours and hours of like having to analyze programming. I was like, oh, this is cool because like I know how to do this. I don’t wanna do it right now. But I could if I thought like AI wasn’t doing a good job. It was a very, uh, it’s a very interesting internal battle I had all day of, should I use AI for this or should I just like power through as a human?
Speaker: Yeah. It’s a really cool thing to think about the way like things are shifting, like even vibe coding, right? Like I do some vibe coding inside. I have a graphic design major and like being able to just code and I’m just like, I can just put this into a vibe code now and it spits out kind of what I want and it’s [00:21:00] like taking me half the time.
Speaker: You know? It’s just, it’s a really cool.
Speaker 3: It is incredible. And just one other note to Roberto, what you were mentioning. I work with this really amazing, innovative school. I wanna shout out Terry Gray out here in New York City. And, uh, her, uh, school is a virtual school for students across New York City, and they do empathy interviews with students to address, you know, whatever needs, whether it’s academic, attendance, social, emotional.
Speaker 3: And we just had a, a thought about what you all just said, which is basically like, could you start to, you know, with consent and following all the protocols, record those conversations with students and add it to like a notebook lm to again, further analyze like where students are at different points in their lives and then to, you know, have that inform so many ways you can support them.
Speaker 3: So there’s just so many tools that Notebook LM is. Definitely by far the most, like, uh, easily to adapt to folks and making them feel really good about it. So, uh, shout out again to the amazing work they’re doing and just all the unique ways schools are just taking that and helping personalize the learning experience.
Speaker: Yeah, I [00:22:00] think it also removes the scariness out of it too, since Notebook Lamb is not out there searching the internet. Well, now you can ask it too, which I think they should have left that out. Sorry, Google. But like, I think it re, it, it, it eliminates a little part of a lot of the folks who are afraid to use AI or generative language models because it’s like, hey, it’s just, it’s referencing whatever you’re adding to it.
Speaker: So whatever you add to it is what’s gonna look at and it’s gonna keep it there. And I think that takes a little bit of that burden off of people’s shoulders too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. Jessica, I’m gonna start with you on this question. You know, you are already alluding to the fact that like, one of the things that Leap Innovations does so well is it brings together, you know, coalitions, it brings all these innovative folks together.
Speaker 3: To solve, to solve challenges and to make the experience better for students and, and, and learners and educators. So here’s a question for both of you. Like we always wanna talk good about people behind their back. Could you shout out some of the educators, the organizations, the innovative tools, solutions people that are really inspiring, that are part of your leap innovation coalitions?
Speaker 3: And just share [00:23:00] kind of why those are such great folks that people should know about. And then Roberto, I’ll, I’ll turn it over to you as well. After Jessica,
Speaker 2: I actually came into this conversation today. I stepped out about 10 minutes early from a coalition session we had with 12 schools here in Chicago.
Speaker 2: They’re bringing together teams of teachers and school leaders to go through that design thinking process about how they might improve learning at their school and how they might select AI powered tools or other tools to help them do that. So in a broad sense, I wanna shout out the folks and the leaders that are making space for teachers to be in those conversations and that are allowing teachers to lead with their expertise in these conversations about how to improve learning, how to select tools that are gonna be best for their classroom and their approach, and who are also bringing students into the conversation, doing the empathy interviews, doing the learner advisories that Roberto talked about, that are centering that student and teacher voice in the way they’re designing.
Speaker 2: When we talk about mind shifts, mindset shifts, that’s one of those. Shifts in the way that we go about that process and the way [00:24:00] that we center humans. So I think in a broad sense, I wanna shout out folks that are doing that or they’re making stepss to do that, and they’re taking that approach more specifically, a couple of the partners that we’ve seen doing that, that I wanna call out, one of the partners in our coalition is the group at Reach Pathways, Brooke McKean, Sasha Pena, and the team there.
Speaker 2: Reach P Pathways is a technology platform that was designed to really expand college access and persistence in a personalized way for students across Chicago and across the country. And they’re building that tool with youth advisors every step of the way. So not only is it leveraging ai, it’s expanding the reach of what they’re doing, the youth voice is at the center of what they’re doing, and they’re bringing that learning into our coalition and sharing that work.
Speaker 2: I definitely wanna shout out Reach Pathways and the team, and we have an incredible group of districts and other leaders that are part of our. Coalition. So our steering committee here at Chicago Public Schools, national Lewis University, the Chicago Public Education [00:25:00] Fund, teach for America. Like the folks that are willing to come into genuine partnership and collaboration to share what they’re learning and the dozens of other people who join us in the group.
Speaker 2: You would not have time for me to make the list of all the great folks who are in the room, but I wanna shout them out for being there and especially the folks who kind of put their hands forward. It just, they will be leaders in collaboration, share what we’re learning, um, and, and do this work together as well as some of the folks who are leading our committees like reach pathways.
Speaker: I want to go ahead and shout out a lot of those teachers out there who are doing the work and making that mindset change and making sure that, you know, they’re giving these tools to students so that they are AI literate when they come out of school, and they have that understanding of what AI is. Also, wanna shout out AI for equity.
Speaker: That group is doing some amazing work with the folks that they have, and even though everybody who’s part of that, the work that they’re doing, and being in some of those meetings and just a hearing and, and listening to some of the things that they’re doing has been phenomenal. Also, want to shout out PlayLab, I haven’t been in a [00:26:00] conversation over the last like month where PlayLab has not come up.
Speaker: Yusuf is doing some amazing things over there. His team is just out there crushing it, and I think that they’re doing amazing work in, in all the work that they’re doing and also leap innovations for the partnerships that they’re doing with us. We probably wouldn’t be at this podcast with you all if it wasn’t for them and the work they we’re doing with them.
Speaker: Uh, so really want to champion them as well in the work that they’re doing with the AI Coalition and, and all those folks in that group as well, in that organization that are doing the, the work to make human-centered design and human de human-centered work a real, you know, crucial part of this, of this whole thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, those are some incredible people and incredible words you’re mentioning. And one that you didn’t mention, because we’re gonna get to it right now, is The Rhythm Project, which is doing some of the most fascinating work about, you know, really making sure that the use of AI hopefully is strengthening human connection, not eroding it.
Speaker 3: So we were very fortunate, our last interview, we were able to interview a number of members [00:27:00] of the, uh, Rithm Project team, and we actually played the AI effect theme and we said, we are going to move forward, gonna try to ask at least one AI effect question with each of our guests. So have you all ever played the AI effect?
Speaker 3: No, I have not. Okay. Well, can you see my screen?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker 3: This makes for great pod, great pod when I’m showing you something that no one can see at home. But listeners, all they have are the list of all the prompts. And so, I don’t know, Roberto, I’m just going to allow you to look at these prompts and you are gonna choose one that you think would be an interesting, uh, prompt for us to have a little discussion.
Speaker 3: We’re gonna play one round of the game. Sound good? All right. There’s no right or wrong answer.
Speaker: Let’s do having an AI version of you sign on to class.
Speaker 3: Ooh. Okay. So the question is having an AI version of you sign on to class for me, Jessica, Rebecca, then Roberto, you can obviously chime in as well. Do you think that use of AI [00:28:00] would strengthen human connection or would it erode human connection by using AI in that way?
Speaker 3: There’s no right or wrong answer, and Roberto, you get to, uh, you get to put on your teacher teacher hat and, uh, to decide first, uh, let’s go with Rebecca.
Speaker 4: Hmm. This one kind of feels like a no brainer, just because, you know, the idea of presence and learning in person. Although I do do a lot of work in philosophy, like I can argue both sides of this, no, no problem.
Speaker 4: Everything’s a gray area for me. But I think there we can all agree as working in education, you probably gain the most by actually showing up to class. The gray area would be if that was part of an assignment or an experiment, maybe, or, uh, it was part of the social contract of your organization, that that was acceptable or maybe in the future.
Speaker 4: But for right now, I can’t really see like [00:29:00] a, an upside to that. Anybody. Can anybody see like a, a benefit to that? Or could we argue that this would be a good idea at any. Points.
Speaker 2: No. And, and we actually ask a similar version of this question to students when we do learner advisories. And without fail, students say, I know that my learning matters and I know that being present in an active learner is something that I wanna preserve.
Speaker 2: And how you’re creating, I use guidelines and implementation for me. So I think not only from our perspective and everything you already articulated Rebecca, but we hear from students themselves that like valuing those learning experiences and being present are really important way of how we think about AI implementation.
Speaker 3: So I’m actually in Washington DC right now. I’m really fortunate I’m gonna be part of, uh, an AI policy roundtable for the educating All Learners Alliance and New America. And it’s to prioritize students with disabilities around AI policy. And so, while I will admit, obviously I’m adding a portion to this, which we do [00:30:00] sometimes with the AI effect, is if I were to sign, like if I were a neurodivergent learner and.
Speaker 3: In addition to me being signed on to class, having an AI version of you there as well. Like for me, as many of you know, right? I, uh, I am neurodivergent and I use fireflies and other note takers all the time because that allows me to truly be present. So like, if that was what allowed someone to be more present or authentic or themselves is like not having to worry about am I gonna like miss a key thing and then I’m focused on that.
Speaker 3: So I’m now not present in the conversation or discussion that I think would strengthen human connection. I know for myself that like, that literally has been a lifesaver and a game changer in the last couple years of my life. So that would be how I’d argue, like it could strengthen human connection. But I know I took that, like I took an extra, uh, I allowed myself the benefit of adding like an extra clause to that.
Speaker 2: I love that though, Brett.
Speaker: Yeah, no, I was gonna say the same thing. I appreciate that [00:31:00] because I mean, it’s true like you do have students that. Aren’t going to verbally participate, but they can have their AI there and maybe they can type with their AI and tell it what to say or whatever it may be, and, and they can feel more comfortable and present in the classroom at the same time.
Speaker: But Rebecca, I, um, similar to you, like you are gonna find those instances where students are taking advantage of you or, or people in general are just taking advantage of it, of just like, well, I’m not gonna go to class ’cause I wanna sleep in, I’m gonna send my AI version of me to class, or wherever it may be.
Speaker: But I also think, like, this is also something that you could look at in terms of like, if you, like, if it’s a, it’s a way that you could essentially be in two places at the same time, right? Like, what if you are in person but you also have a AI version of you dialed into a call or something that may be, but you’re there present with that, but it’s also doing something else for you on the other side, almost like a agentic version of yourself that’s gonna kick off certain things for you instead of just being there [00:32:00] for you present.
Speaker 2: And I love what you did with kind of bring in a different interpretation of what that question meant than where my mind went. And I think those kind of conversations and different perspectives are like the key and the power of the human-centered design piece, right? Because my mind went right to like, I’m signing on an AI version of myself and I’m not there.
Speaker 2: That’s my interpretation. But your interpretation was, I’m here and I have an AI powered version of myself to assist me. And I think that that was different than how I interpret it. And like the nuance and the perspective that that brought to our conversation I think is really important. I love these kind of conversations around ai where we can surface like what does this really mean and what does the implication of it, and what are the different ways we can think about it to inform how we are making decision?
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well then I would love to ask, Jessica, would you like to play one more, one more round of this? Is there one here that stands out to you that you’d like to have a final, a final little dialogue on? Sure. [00:33:00] And while you are thinking of it, I just wanted to say, Roberto and what you were mentioning, like, uh, Jessica, like this is a great way to have these kind of conversations, um, because it brings all those perspectives out.
Speaker 3: So Roberto, when you’re doing version 2.0 and other people are finally getting their playbooks going, break these out as icebreakers and staff PDs or student advisory classes. And again, capture that wisdom because you’ll get so many different perspectives that hopefully guides, you know, the policies and playbooks you have in your, in your communities.
Speaker: Oh, for sure. You’re gonna have to send these to me so I could have a them ready to go. Will do.
Speaker 2: I I’m gonna go with the next question. Engage in AI simulations that help you see the world or scenarios from someone else’s perspective. And I’m supposed to decide who goes next. Huh? Let’s start with you, Roberto, since you kicked us off with the question last time.
Speaker: Nice. I think [00:34:00] that this is something that could be helpful in a way. I think like school AI uses this a lot, I think in their version of it, of like, I want to talk to a certain person from a certain time, or I wanna know about this character from a book. I think that is the, that’s the mindset that I took.
Speaker: Not so much like I be, I wanna be Brett Roer and I wanna, you know, see my life through, see life through his eyes, even though I think it would be awesome the amount of connections that you have and people you talk to on a daily basis. Brett, but I, I, for this, I think it’s like the eyes of somebody else in terms of like, even like looking at like a, wanna take it back to our learner profile.
Speaker: Like we’re learning about our students and we’re seeing how they learn and how they work in a different way that we would never pay attention to or not be able to pay attention to because of the amount of time that we’d have to take to go through these things one by one and, and do all of the work for it.
Speaker: But when you put it through an AI simulation of that, it’s like, okay. Now I get to understand these students quicker. Yes. Just double checking it. Like [00:35:00] obviously you don’t wanna just be like, yeah, I’m just gonna take it. But you’re able to learn from these students and the view that they have. So I think that’s kind of where I lean with this.
Speaker 4: I’ll go next just because this is something that I’ve been thinking about in a bit of a different way. Uh, I like to sometimes try and build fairly detailed personas, uh, just to be able to stress test, pressure test, whether it’s messaging or find my blind spots or things that might be missing. And so I’ve actually read quite a few research papers about this that have come out just in the last year or two that are kind of mixed on this because, uh, often we’re building some of those personas, uh, to help us see things from other perspectives on information that AI either summarizes or retrieves for us.
Speaker 4: And so often they’re not fully representative of, uh. Actual people with actual challenges. And a lot of it is still built from that, you know, [00:36:00] weird bias, place of Western, you know, educated, whatever, heterosexual, whatever. And so I think that this can be great if it’s done in a way that we can actually gain meaningful data and insights into somebody’s perspective for real.
Speaker 4: You know, like if we have actual transcripts or data they have given firsthand, I think that’s important. As opposed to just, uh, do a research for me, deep research Google into how, uh, a person of color from this community feels. I think it needs to be more meaningful than that, but it can be very. Useful, especially if it’s done from a way where it helps you think about things or see things in a way that you might not have before.
Speaker 4: So it really is a spectrum of usefulness, uh, in my mind, but you do have to be very careful that you’re involving real people in building those perspectives. My 2 cents,
Speaker 3: Roberto already mentioned this, I learned so much just from following Rebecca on LinkedIn, [00:37:00] and obviously I’m very grateful that I get to be her co-host and she shares a lot of these things with you, all the listeners.
Speaker 3: But Rebecca’s the one that first really emphasized to me how much you can use an AI tool to, um, really take differing perspectives to kind of push your own thinking. But what she said here is so important to me at least, like one of the reasons why a notebook lm how Roberto, uh, and his community’s using it, or how Rebecca just said like transcripts.
Speaker 3: That’s really the perfect example of you really want to see people from their other perspective, but the more you can use specific people and their examples, the better. And Rebecca has taught me more than anything, like anything with ai, especially when it comes to providing you a perspective, you have to be so careful about, like, is there an ulterior motive?
Speaker 3: Uh, who’s making the tool? What is their real end goal? So like I look at everything much more skeptically, skeptically than, uh, I might have in the past because of Rebecca, but in this case, like there’s so much benefit to this when done well, the Roberto example of his [00:38:00] students, and there’s so much harm that can be done from this when, uh, used to like manipulate a situation to try to gain, like with ulterior motives, which is my Rebecca, uh, like on this side and Roberto’s on this side, like the devil on each side.
Speaker 3: The devil and the angel. That’s where I go. So I know it could go both ways, but I’m gonna be an optimist on that one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. I think it’s, it’s never a sub. It’s only a supplement, and it might be a supplement for how I prepare. It might be a supplement for setting a direction, but in my opinion, this is one that that is only part of a process.
Speaker 2: It can’t substitute for real, authentic human voice, real authentic human experiences. And I picked this one because it felt like it, it, it might be an easy one to say, oh, like that, that’s great. I can gain empathy, I can get new perspective. I can open my eyes. But Rebecca, I love what you said about, we’re already doing that with our own blind spots and how we direct the AI to produce the simulation for us.
Speaker 2: And then we’re potentially trusting that that output is giving [00:39:00] us something that we’re missing when we know that it might not be. And so I don’t think, I don’t think this is a situation and probably none of these ever are where this is a true substitute. Really just a supplement to think and guide where we wanna go in genuine human connection and conversation and perspective.
Speaker 2: That was fun.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Uh, I’ll, I will definitely share, again, it’s the Rithm Project, R-I-T-H-M, and definitely check out their website. They have so many free resources and tools. This is just one of, uh, many. But also you can like, use an AI tool of your choice to come up with some of these and have these be icebreakers, uh, in your, in your own community.
Speaker 3: But reach out to them. They’re an amazing organization.
Speaker 4: We like to do something a little different here at the AmpED to 11 podcast. Mind you, you have already heard a little bit of our opinions, you know, in the last five or 10 minutes here. But we do like to do a midis episode reversal and make you honorary temporary [00:40:00] hosts of the podcast for the next five to 10 minutes.
Speaker 4: And as the hosts, you get to ask us as your guests anything that you want, anything you wanna know about. And Brett told a guest one time we have to answer it. So really it can, the sky’s the limit, my friends. So, and Brett always likes to go first on these.
Speaker 3: That is not true. But still, if that, if that makes my amazing cohost feel better, and if that’s what our guests would like, our new cohost, new host, then I will obviously oblige they’re the
Speaker 3: boss.
Speaker 3: All right, we’ll start with you, Roberto, and, uh, take as long as need. But anything you wanna,
Speaker: I’ve got a good deed question for you. Got a good, deep question for you. So what is the tipping point? If AI can already handle the task, schools traditionally assign? What new kinds of learning should we de, should we be designing that AI can’t replace but can amplify?
Speaker: And how do we help teachers make that shift without adding to their workload? Mm.
Speaker 4: It’s a good one. [00:41:00] It’s a good one
Speaker 3: for, for our listeners, not to have me buy more time, but for our listeners, and that really was an amazing question. It was so good. Could you kindly just say it one more time please. And thank you.
Speaker: What is the tipping point? If AI can already handle the tasks schools traditionally assign? What new kinds of learning should we be? Should we be designing that AI can’t replace but can amplify? And how do we help teachers make that shift without adding to their workload?
Speaker 3: I’ve been thinking about this a lot.
Speaker 3: So obviously 2025 AI exists and everyone is at this, like you just mentioned this to. Point, but I was actually listening to a podcast just on the way down where they talked about lot societal changes over the past 120 years in the United States specifically. And when the technology changes, there is this kind of like existential crisis, you know, it could be the automobile, computers, calculators, et cetera.
Speaker 3: So obviously this is a very, very unique, uh, transition in technology and society. But so were those, [00:42:00] and so the thing that I hope educators start to do and like Roberto to what, uh, Rebecca mentioned, like the playbook you’re all creating and like the deep thought people are having about the transition, that’s step one.
Speaker 3: So like the first thing is, and obviously AI can help with this kind of, uh, distilling our thoughts and trying to make sense of it all. I know that sounds counterintuitive, but by just having open conversations and then using AI to help us correlate that data in people’s opinions, allow all that qualitative data, I think it can do the following.
Speaker 3: One, something I’ve been doing a lot is asking educators to kind of take this journey with me. Okay. This is, uh, we all agree, for example, that still being able to write critically and analytically is an important skill. So let’s just assume that’s a fact for argument’s sake. In this example, well then I’ll ask a teacher, okay, so like, walk me through the process with a, with a student or a child.
Speaker 3: Like what should they be doing at each step? And like, what, what do you hope they’re thinking? And like, explain what [00:43:00] you would like them to think and how do you like get them to that point? What, like, you’re the expert in this field. And so once I start doing that with teachers, I start to ask, well, in this exact portion of it, what if a student could use an AI tool to do X?
Speaker 3: Would that help their learning or would that hinder their learning and growth? And if you kind of take any process, again, in this case, education or it could be, you know, anything. If you distill it to that, and I’m not saying I’m an expert and know like when it’s helpful or hurtful, but having people even just think like that, that’s something that we know is good at education, is like getting educators to think why they’re asking students to do this in this moment, in a journey.
Speaker 3: That’s something that, uh, is good pedagogical skill, pre ai and hopefully with AI and you know, in the future. So that would be one thing I would hope we do more of is just like, get analytical. And again, that is a big cognitive load on teachers, but I think if we use that as like a a, a professional development [00:44:00] device, I’m gonna be doing that in a school actually in the next week where we have two hours with a group of teachers.
Speaker 3: And that’s one of the things we’re gonna ask is design a lesson. But as you’re designing with your partner, if they’re open to recording it, great. If not, it’s okay. Really think about why you’re about to ask them to do this. And then again, is the tool you’re asking ’em to use, is it. Helping or hindering the learning?
Speaker 3: And if so, how do you explain that to a child as well? So I guess it’s first like understanding your own thoughts around it, um, and codifying that amongst the community so that everyone feels like they understand the why and the how, uh, of using AI and how it either supports or hinders that portion of the learning process.
Speaker 3: And hopefully that really amplifies and like specifies the best parts of learning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Brett, you asked the question of, of us earlier about what we’re thinking about in terms of what is needed and how we develop teachers. And I think that that example you just gave hit the nail on the head of, you know, where we started to go in that conversation of if we really want this to be accessible to [00:45:00] students in every content area, teachers in every content area need to have that kind of reflection and understanding of how it applies to their lesson, to their contact, to their learning experiences.
Speaker 2: And so I really love that.
Speaker 3: All right. Well thank you that again, you don’t pull punches over at the AmpED to 11 podcast. I’ll give you that, Rebecca. Good luck.
Speaker 4: I, I was thinking in a little bit more, you know, specificity and just in more in line with kind of things I’ve been thinking about lately. And again, I do a lot of work like just with general philosophy because a lot of the stuff we talk about with AI right now really are philosophical kind of questions that have a lot of different nuances to them.
Speaker 4: And I think a lot about, I, I really think we’re gonna have to go back to more, um, orality in our learning through dialogue and conversations. I don’t know about you, but I take a lot away from conversations like this or from that game. We play with the Rithm project and I see us having to move more in that direction to [00:46:00] be able to really work with students.
Speaker 4: I think that will be the tipping point because really in a world full of deep fakes, the only way I’m gonna know, uh, that I’m actually. Getting your ideas and your thoughts is to have you explain them to me and argue them to me and articulate what you think and why you think it in real time. And it’s tricky because we know this, but also we know that could create a lot more work potentially for teachers.
Speaker 4: And that’s kind of that tension that Roberto, that Roberto mentioned as well. So it’s tricky. But I do think we’ve overcorrected so far into the realm of the written language. We text everything, we email everything. We have kids write and put all of their thoughts into writing, which has its own benefits, but I just don’t know if we’re gonna be able to exist in that realm of education forever.
Speaker 4: In a world where there’s technology that can imitate writing as well as it does. And the only way we’re going to know for sure. Anything, at least in person [00:47:00] for the next little while till the next technology comes along as if they’re explaining it to you and they’re on the spot and they’re debating it and really engaging in that Socratic form of dialogue that has been around since forever as a, as a method of learning.
Speaker 4: And so I’ve been thinking about that quite a bit, and I think that will be a tipping point. And I, I do see us needing to find a way to hopefully automate all of the ai, you know, type things that teachers can do to give them more times to do this. Because I think this idea of that interpersonal relationship building that all happens face-to-face with words and interpersonal communication.
Speaker 4: So that’s what I think the tipping point will be. And I think that that’s really the space where relationships are built and where meaning happens and growth and learning happens.
Speaker 3: Cool. Cool. Um, just a quick follow up to that. Roberto used the term vibe coding before, and I think what Rebecca just said is like, um, okay.
Speaker 3: I find the, uh, I’m gonna use my shout out Terry Gray [00:48:00] again, being so insightful. When I asked her about these empathy interviews, one of the things she brought up was the fact that they actually like had to fill out a Google form. After each interview, it became more about filling out the form than the interview, right?
Speaker 3: So like, the same way there’s like vibe, coding. Imagine if we got teachers to embrace, and by the way, we should really do this. Like this isn’t just an idea. Vibe planning. So when I was a teacher, like an AP or a principal, it’s like, okay, write that down. Here’s your objective, blah, blah, blah. But like the conversation, if people got more comfortable recording and allowing that to be what, you know, plans their lesson, you’re gonna have higher level lessons.
Speaker 3: ’cause you’re capturing like the thought process as opposed to like, okay, I’m filling this out because I have to fill this out. Like, it has to have the objective here. It has to have this. If teachers got into vibe planning, I bet they would plan better and quicker and enjoy it more.
Speaker: A hundred percent.
Speaker: It’s all about, it’s all about human centered and relationships. I mean, you have to build relationships in order to understand what’s going on. Uh, do you, you know Kunal Dalal? [00:49:00] Yes. Do you? Yeah. Yes. Amazing person. He’s amazing. Orange County, I think, or la uh, California. Yeah. Yeah. So he did a keynote, that conference that I was at and spoke about how he has conversations with his, with his son, who at times his son doesn’t wanna talk to him.
Speaker: Right. He’s like, he’s four years old. He’s like, I don’t wanna talk to you, whatever. But what they do is they go into chat, GPT, and they both say something about their day and they, they use the audio version of it, so they speak to it, and then they tie it together of like, how did your day and my day make a good impact on everything else?
Speaker: And I was like, I wanna bring this back to my schools. Like I have to figure out a classroom that I could pilot this with. Where a teacher can be standing at the classroom and every morning when they come in, the students come in, they’re like, tell me about your morning. And they, they tell, you know. Or Gemini because we’re, we’re pushing Gemini in our network.
Speaker: ’cause we’re a Google, uh, Google Suite. So have it, have them tell every like one thing about your morning and [00:50:00] then tie it all together and make a story for your students so that it’s like, okay, we’re grounded in this together. We all had a part in this conversation and, and we built out our morning story of this.
Speaker: And then that gives them just like that activator of like, you want to hear about me and you wanna know what’s going out on my day. So then that way they can like take off and like be present throughout the day because that teacher cared and they wanted to hear them and they took the time. Like obviously they’re using Gemini, but they’re also standing there.
Speaker: They’re listening to what the students say and understanding what’s going on. And it’s like, I just think like that’s the relationship human-centered thing that I really want to push into our, our network and figure out a pilot class. Uh, so if there’s any teachers in our organization that is listening to this, you know, holler at me and we’ll make this happen.
Speaker 2: I love that, that’s like the modern version of the Teacher’s Daily Journal, right? Where a kid comes in and they writes through two sentences about what’s happening and the teacher takes 25 of them and reads through them and tries to get a sense of it. But what does it really mean to have the student be able to articulate that in their own words?
Speaker 2: The teachers be able to quickly make meaning and understanding of them with the [00:51:00] help of these tools, but we’re still holding true what matters the most about what, why that journal was there in the first place. Getting a chance to get to know the students and, and connect with them in deeper ways.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 3: Before Jessica goes, again, this is another one like we’re talking about a workshop I lead for a lot of schools is called the Power of Present Parenting. And the main thing I talk about is voice memo. Recording can replace screens and like if you’re helping someone think of whatever, a project or thing, by not having to type it out and like Google Research in the moment, you can just have a free flowing conversation and, and again, it allows you to be more present.
Speaker 3: My wife Rosa, who listens to every episode or none, I’m not sure yet. She tells ’em, I mean they’re all great, but she can’t quote anything we talk about. But I like this idea dinner. If I were just to turn over my phone and just hit record and let everyone know we’re doing that and say we’re gonna make a family journal and kind of what Roberto just said, just everyone kind of share what the happened today and then we can kind of have this running record of what a year in the life of the Roer Ortiz [00:52:00] family is like.
Speaker 3: Or like, what was Sammy’s journey from seven to eight to nine to 10. So yeah, okay. This is a great, this is some, you know, this is some vibe journaling. I’m gonna keep throwing vibe in front of.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let’s
Speaker 3: start to vibe. Just wait until they get,
Speaker 2: wait till they get to a 14 and 15 like Roberto’s and my kids.
Speaker 2: And the answer is fine.
Speaker 3: No, I’m not ready. Was
Speaker 2: fine. We gotta get right. We gotta get better prompts in place for the family dinner in high school.
Speaker: Uh, Rebecca, you know what I also go away from, and now I’m just gonna start doing it to you when I text you, is that I’ve started just going to voice messages. I stop texting people sometimes and like really like my, one of my best friends, we literally just voice text each other and just send each other voice memos and like, I love it because you can actually get the emotion of what is being said in that text message and you don’t lose it.
Speaker: So like, him and I like conversations like you, I can show you my phone and it’s like half of ’em are text, half of ’em are voice. And like my wife and I [00:53:00] also started doing that and it’s just like, why are we not doing this all the time? It’s like the greatest thing that you could just get your message across.
Speaker 4: That’s so funny because I hate those. I just have it convert them to, so I can just read it.
Speaker 3: So my favorite, most thoughtful human being in the world besides Rosa, uh, Chakri Dali. He sends me those and he’s the only one that does it. But like you just said, Roberto, it’s so moving. And then I always talk into my phone and write a text to voice.
Speaker 3: Voice to text message back to him. But you’re right, he would love to hear my voice. Or some people would and some people wouldn’t. But again, it allows you to personalize communication.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like the emotion and the sentiment. You can’t ever get that in a text message. No, no. Heart emoji really captures what comes across in your voice.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: But listeners, for all the, again, millions of people that send their fan mail to Rebecca, don’t send her voice memos, still send her written, uh, written love letters. Um,
Speaker 4: I can just read so much faster than I can listen to [00:54:00] something and I am just so about efficiency. So maybe that’s a flaw on my part.
Speaker 4: I need to actually stop and be present in the moment and listen to the emotion Roberto is actually trying to send me in those messages. I’ll do that next time.
Speaker 3: You need to speak in people’s love language.
Speaker 4: I’ll turn my read receipts on for you so you can see how effective they are.
Speaker 3: Hmm. Well we haven’t let, um, our other co-host ask her a question yet, so apologies.
Speaker 3: Jessica, we will be better. Um, guests apologies.
Speaker 2: Um, well the point is to have conversation. We’re having good conversation. So that’s how it goes. My question is, when I think about the groups that we connect with and the conversations that we’re having, we are trying to continue to push the frontier to continue to provoke the thinking.
Speaker 2: And you all have had opportunities here to talk to so many people, to ask so many questions. What is the next frontier question that we’re not talking about? What is the next topic that we need to spend more time on to push our thinking to the next level? We have a [00:55:00] coalition convening in February, so you have the opportunity here to help us think about where do we go next?
Speaker 2: What, what aren’t we talking about enough right now?
Speaker 4: I have many thoughts about this because I. I am a futurist, right? I think all the time about things like this and. I think something that we’re forgetting about or we’re not talking about enough, has to do with digital trace data, and this is a lot again of the research that I do, is we talk about, oh cool, we’re getting all this personalized learning and we’re collecting all this information about students and we have everything about how they think and how they feel, and every little thing about how long it took them to write a test or how many tries it took them that we are capturing.
Speaker 4: Massive amounts of this digital trace data about students essentially without their consent. And one of the biggest forward facing issues that’s been identified by forecast and foresighting groups with AI is that data collected about children now will impact the rest of their [00:56:00] lives. And maybe not for the better, because I think about a future where Harvard or Yale decides that your application is also based on all of that digital trace data.
Speaker 4: They want all of that data plus whatever they’re buying from the grocery store chains and your social media providers and all of this data brokering that’s happening to really build these pictures of students and make decisions about them based on all this data. And I don’t know that I love that. I don’t know that.
Speaker 4: That’s great. I don’t know that we’re talking about that enough. And we also have to remember, a lot of this data we’re collecting, uh, is in the hands of people who want it for profit. A lot of EdTech companies are gathering this data, they’re selling it to other companies. And, uh, there’s a lot of data brokering going on.
Speaker 4: Student data and I don’t think we’re talking about it enough and I think there’s lots of ways it can be helpful, but I see a lot of ways it could cause a lot of harm down the road and students have no say in that. So I think it’s a conversation we’re missing.
Speaker 3: That’s again why I love and fear Rebecca, [00:57:00] because she’s absolutely right and I don’t have a, like I don’t have a more meaningful follow up ’cause that’s something that no one is talking about.
Speaker 3: I think what still vexes me and I would love like LEAP innovations, who brings all the right people together. Just a good example is in November I was really fortunate to get to meet with like so many organizations similar to like a leap innovation where they’re like, they’re doing amazing work and everyone kind of wants to find ways to collaborate in service of, you know, a greater good in education or what have you.
Speaker 3: Sometimes it’s really hard to find the through line. Like what is the way that by leap innovations and amplifying all the innovation and this organization coming together, it’s a, you know, our, our sum is greater than our parts. And so some I did over the break is I took like these six really high level conversations and I keep telling, like, members of my team, like ver my chief of staff, I’m like, I cannot figure this out.
Speaker 3: Like, I want to [00:58:00] figure out how all of these puzzle pieces fit together. So what I started doing was I took all the transcripts that I, you know, I have from all my meetings and all my notes and all my thoughts, and I just kept pushing myself to be like, okay, this is what I think we do best. This is what they’re saying they do best.
Speaker 3: So like, if we can figure this part out first, now how do you bring this organization and how do you bring that one in? So I guess when you’re having this convening, I, I would love for people, uh. How do you capture wisdom when you bring all these people together? Like, I’m here in Washington, DC with some of the smartest people I’m ever gonna be around and I would love to see tomorrow.
Speaker 3: How do we take all that, which is a very standard thing, having a round table working group, and how are we gonna leverage AI or tools to be like we’re leaving with something really productive and powerful. And that’s the reason we all just traveled around the country to come here. So like that’s something I don’t think people are talking about enough is how are we using AI to help mission aligned organizations really come to a, a, a better step forward?
Speaker 3: And again, [00:59:00] amplifying all their strengths to in service of some larger goal. Uh, I don’t have the answer to it, but that’s something I hope really smart people, uh, start thinking about and making some changing.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So opportunities and risks that we need to think about as we continue to push the conversation forward as, as we do in all parts of this conversation.
Speaker 2: Whew.
Speaker 3: That was really good way to tie it up there. Good job. That was excellent. Thank you. You both really asked incredible questions and somehow this has already been just such an incredible, credible, free flowing conversation that like all good ones at some point must end. So I wanna thank both of you very much and we do always just like to leave with some final words of wisdom from you.
Speaker 3: Also. Like really, if there’s anything you haven’t really expressed to our, uh, again, millions of listeners, the things that you hope like people know about in the space, that could be people, orgs, tools, insights, that you just wanna make sure you get out there, this is [01:00:00] your chance.
Speaker 2: I would wanna leave people today with one of the pieces of inspiration that has come out of our work with so many folks, and that is, wherever you are now, start somewhere and start with a conversation that’s gonna move your work forward.
Speaker 2: Start with that human-centered work that’s gonna help you accelerate what you’re doing. And LEAP is here to be a partner in that leap is here to be a partner with that in our networks to help make connections to the folks that you need to hear from and you need to learn from. But one of the takeaways from our recent report was start small and learn fast.
Speaker 2: This doesn’t have to be about boiling the ocean, but starting with the right conversation, starting with student voice at the center, engaging with a question that you haven’t asked yet that’s gonna help push your thinking forward. Take that next step.
Speaker: I want folks to really think about and understand that there’s a boundless potential for AI to make schools the most interesting [01:01:00] place for kids that they absolutely wanna be at.
Speaker: There’s so many tools and opportunities exist or that are being designed right now that teachers can hold kids to their highest standards, challenge them, motivate them, and have them do what they want and need to learn. And I think that we just need to get to that point and just have folks really like.
Speaker: Understand that. And it’s a, it’s a hope of mine that we can get to that point and we can get that, that mindset change.
Speaker 3: Thank you for closing with such poignant words of wisdom and speaking of poignant words of wisdom, Rebecca Bultsma, my incredible co-host, um, last episode we filmed, you pushed me to come up with like a way to close our show that is meaningful to me.
Speaker 3: And you know, I know you’ve been giving a lot of thought. What is, what is your closing line? What are the words of wisdom you wanna leave our listeners with every week?
Speaker 4: I think I just always want to encourage people to engage in radical humanity, always in everything they do. [01:02:00] Be even more human, flamboyantly human, if you will, just in every possible way and everything that you do relentlessly, because it matters more now than ever.
Speaker 4: So that would be my challenge to everybody and everything that you do, um, relentlessly and passionately human. Even more than necessary. So that’s my kind of closing message. Always.
Speaker 3: We’ll ask our producer, Serena, if we should change the name of this show to Flamboyantly Human. That is an incredible phrase, Rebecca.
Speaker 3: I can’t believe how, I mean, did you just make that up? That was incredible. Yeah. Just
Speaker 4: so I’ve had to go more Gen Z, like even just more human sounding on my own LinkedIn posts right away from the stuffy like professionalism. Just so that there is no mistake that this was written by a person. I think we have to go out of our way now to make no mistake.
Speaker 4: This is human. This is human focused. This is human written, this is human designed and make that a priority. Always [01:03:00]
Speaker 3: again, incredible, uh, poignant words of wisdom from all of our members. We wanna thank our guests, Jessica Paulsen and Roberto Vargas. Um, last question for both of you. If people wanna engage with the amazing work you or your organization’s lead, could you just kindly share where they could find you all?
Speaker 2: Absolutely. You can find us@leapinnovations.org.
Speaker: Yeah. And we’re at distinctive schools.org.
Speaker 3: Okay. Amazing. Um, I wanna thank everybody again and, uh, I wanna always use this platform to shout out some of my favorite people, Sammy and Annabell. So I just wanna say I’m so incredibly proud of you both. I love you to the moon, the stars, Jupiter and Mars, and I can’t wait to see you all really soon.
Speaker 3: All right. Thank you all for listening. Have a wonderful day, and you keep it AmpED to 11.
